Talk:University of California, Riverside
 | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the University of California, Riverside article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 |
 | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
 Archives |
|---|
American Association for the Advancement of Science
well... I think scientists in UCR deserve some credits.. this is what i came up
'UC Riverside is a research based university. In the past decade, UC Riverside has had leading numbers of faculty members named as fellows of American Association for the Advancement of Science among all institutions in the nation. As in 2006, 8 UCR faculty members have been elected to AAAS fellowship, highest among UC schools. '
http://www.aaas.org/aboutaaas/fellows/2005.shtml http://www.ucop.edu/news/archives/2002/april09art1.htm (bottom portion of the article)
Let me know if i counted it wrong.. "CTRL + FIND" YES, UCR is not a perfect nor a most selective school.. AS long as negative facts are expressed in a NPOV way.. i have not problem seeing them on the article. But it caught my attention by seeing someone tried so hard to object this credible school using words such as "909", "SMOG BELT", "University of Chinese Refugee".. i mean.. what's wrong? Those words are 100% opnion based.. why people hate it so much? This article was actually misleading people to believe that UCR is "IN FACT" the worst school in the world, which it isn't. come on.. give it some respect.. "CONTRIBUTIONS" claimed by some people, in my opnion, are just jokes. but i'm glad to see some progress going on.. and this is what Wikipedia is all about.. --bowbowx
A few things here: - I have no objection to adding AAAS numbers. - "University of Chinese Refugees" is offensive, and was removed from the article a LONG time ago. - Nobody reading this article will infer that UCR is the worst school in the world - dunno where you're getting this from. - "smog-belt" is an actual term, and it is referenced. UCRGrad 16:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Let's try this again
(I archived all 82kb of the previous talk page, after finding no recent topics that had not devolved into uncivility or pointlessness.)
Student's Review Redux.
The StudentsReview.com stat needs to go for multiple reasons.
- The sample size is 40 students. It's self-reported data as well, and thusly not accurate enough for Wikistandards. You can't cite a messageboard, you can't cite a forum like this. Putting this up is like quoting ApartmentRatings.com. Additionally, with the recent substantiated claims of sockpuppetry, it's clear that we cannot trust a user-submitted site. The use of multiple identities could--and likely has--tainted Student's Review.com
- The statistics listed on the site show a pattern of inaccuracy. They claim that UCR has an average ACT of 14. Clearly, that is not true and is contradicted by UCR admission statistics. I don't even think you can get into a UC school with a score that low. UCRGrad responded that this is because not everyone submits their ACT score, if this is the case then the site contains a major data flaw that prevents accuracy in the stats. A reader who follows that link is immediatly presented with a statistic that is clearly not true and thus undermines our article.
- The site still has an Application deadline of 2004. It's 2 years outdated.
- Even if it were acceptable to use information from the site, the authors who have done so, did it selectively. The majority of the school's ratings are in the B range--none of which has been mentioned in the article. If it is so imperative that we mention hate crimes near campus, we must pursue this angle with equal vigor. Since it's current form is misleading and lacking context, the statistic must go.
I have provided adequate reasoning for the removal of the statistic. I'm sure the majority of the users here back them. Thusly, do not revert it until you've addressed these concerns. If additional data is not entered to even the playing field--show both the positive and the negative, it cannot even begin to be considered as NPOV. That aside, the site's very nature does not meet Wiki standards.
Thank you TheRegicider 04:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that the StudentsReview.com stats must go. A self-selecting user-submitted population with sample size of 40? Not exactly reliable information. Dandan 04:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
The argument here about StudentsReview.com data is problematic for several reasons. 1) Sample size of 40 is appropriate. When Princeton Review sends out surveys for each school, how many responses do you think they get back? 40 is about right. Secondly, when US News sends out its own surveys, they don't even get a return of 40 for each school! 40 is also "generally" enough to apply many statistical tests, provided the raw data is obtainable. Thus, sample size ALONE, is not a valid argument.
2) Most UCR students don't take the ACT (they take SAT). Thus, OF the students that took the ACT and responded to the StudentsReview.com survey their average was 14. This makes perfect sense. It is likely that students who did poorly on SAT, took the ACT for the off chance that they would score comparatively higher on the ACT (and boost their objective numbers). This is a common practice among low-scoring high school students. Thus, there really is nothing alarming about such a low avg ACT score. Again, it just means that OF the students that took the ACT and responded to the StudentsReview.com survey their average was 14. What it also does is provide background information on the respondents - by reporting average ACT, along with average age, SAT scores, GPA of survey respondents, etc. we get an idea of what the sample pool was. It is standard practice in observational studies (including surveys) to report this type of background information. Nothing about the reported average ACT invalidates the survey data.
3) You cannot argue that self-reported data does not meet wiki standards. By definition, ALL surveys that are not done by structured interview are self-reported. Wiki's restriction on message boards is only that a random person's post cannot be used as a reference. For instance, if a user writes "UCR is the smog-capital of the U.S.," you can't reference that users's post because it comes from a message board. That's different from a website-conducted survey of college students that is tabulated and reported. You may criticize the methodology as imperfect, but NO study is perfect. Survey is one of the weakest forms of scientific data collection, but it is still valid and acceptable.
4) If you look at the dates of when survey data was submitted, you'll find that they were added periodically over a period of several years - unlikely to be the work of a "sockpuppet." Furthermore, if you compare the survey data to other UC's, you'll find a UCR's data isn't really an outlier. I believe the data to be reasonably valid, but definitely reportable on wikipedia. UCRGrad 16:48, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Are you really suggesting that the Princeton Review has a sample size of 40 students? That's so ridiculous that I am without words. The data flaw alone invalidates this stat. If the SR was on top of things they'd get rid of the ACT data but they haven't. As it currently stands it claims the average score is 14. IT'S NOT TRUE. With that same flaw in mind the SAT, GPAs are tainted if a studented did not enter their score. As you've said, survey's are the weakest form of data. This article is jammed backed with info, we do not need to lower our standards to admit it. We've got plenty of stats painting an accurate picture, we don't need this one. Anyways, majority is clearly on my side--I imagine it will be as you're now without sockpuppets, so it will stay out. TheRegicider 17:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Princeton Review Statistics
What should we do about these statistics? From what I see from other schools, no other UC lists these statistics at all. For example, the "UCR in the bottom twenty among its top 361 for "Teaching Assistants Teach Too Many Upper-Level Courses",[10] "Professors Get Low Marks [for Teaching]",[11] and "Professors Make Themselves Scarce".[12]." also apply to UCLA if you look it up online -- but the UCLA wiki doesn't mention it. Should we mention Princeton Review statistics at all? Going by what other UC's are doing on their wiki, I would say not to. Listing a simple ranking a la US News & World Report should be sufficient. What do you guys think? Dandan 04:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know, but I think it's odd that the Princeton Review for 2004 is used in one part of the article and one for 2006 used in another part of the article. –Tifego(t) 05:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Princeton Review statistics should be mentioned because PR is a widely-recognized and respected resource for college information and admissions. Just because the UCLA article doesn't mention the PR book, does not mean it shouldn't be mentioned in the UCR article. The UCLA article is NOT the gold standard by which we base university articles on wikipedia - therefore it is largely irrelevant what is written over there.UCRGrad 16:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Again, using other UC articles as a benchmark is not valid because they are not the "gold standard" for how a university article should be written. The mere fact that US News reports detailed campus rankings and statistics demonstrates that these data are important. A well-written college article would include these statistics, and I would even suggest that the editors of the Cal, UCLA, etc. articles to include these data.UCRGrad 16:54, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Dandan, please re-read what I wrote: "using other UC articles as a benchmark is not valid because they are not the "gold standard" for how a university article should be written." This is a point I want to emphasize. UCRGrad 18:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
- first of all, please don't cut my statements up (i have edited them back into their original format); its rude. second, what is the gold standard for what a university article is and how come you get to decide what the standard is for UCR? the gold standard definitely can't your edits considering how many people regard your version as severely & negatively biased. all the UC's are part of the same system, why wouldn't their wikipedia show similar & standardised information? it IS relevant what the UCLA wiki article has, because all the UC articles should strive to include similar information and background. Dandan 19:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Hate Crime Stats
I figured out why one source reports 5 hate crimes in UCR vs. the Clery Act (federal) source, which reports none. The reason is that the Clery Act (federal) source only reports hate crimes that also fall under the following categories: Murder/Non-negligent manslaughter Aggravated Assault Forcible sex offenses Arson Negligent manslaughter Simple Assault
That is, only VIOLENT hate crimes (plus arson) are Clery Act-reportable. However, the more generous statistic also includes non-violent hate crimes. Thus, there is no discrepancy between the refs. UCRGrad 17:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)