User talk:NickCT: Difference between revisions

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Archive I: Aug, 2009- Jul, 2010 Archive II: Aug, 2010- Oct, 2010 Archive III: Nov, 2010- Jan, 2011 Archive IV: Feb, 2011- Jan, 2012 Archive V: Feb, 2012- Sep, 2012 Archive VI: Oct, 2012- July 2013 Archive VII: Aug, 2013- May 2014 Archive VIII: May, 2014- April 2015 Archive IX: April, 2015- December 2017 Archive X: December 2017- August 2020 Archive XI: August 2020 - February 2023

Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (conflicts and protests) on a "Wikipedia policies and guidelines" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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You did not sign your statement for the Scott Adams RfC. It is required, so please do so. You can see Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies for examples in other RfC's. Also, another editor corrected your spelling of "controversial" in the statement, which you spelled "contraversial". Thank you. Stoarm (talk) 16:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Stoarm: - Thanks for the suggestion and the spelling note. I guess I've gotta fess to the typo, as it's a little hard to controdict.

I think the RfC is OK as the bot seemed to list it correctly despite my not signing. NickCT (talk) 01:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your signature is required. The only reason the bot listed it is because you used fictitious signatures as examples in the part that outlines how responses are to be formatted. Are you going to sign the statement? Stoarm (talk) 13:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Required by? I'll consider signing it. I'm not sure exactly what the value would be. Is your concern that RfC isn't neutrally worded or something? NickCT (talk) 13:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what the value is. It's required. I'm not sure why you're making such a basic issue so difficult. You are a long-time editor and I'm sure know when signatures are and are not required. I provided WP:SIG, which I'd have to assume you're very familiar with already. Are you claiming some sort of exemption from this requirement? It's your RfC and so you should obviously sign it, just as all other editors do in their RfCs. Are you going to sign it? Stoarm (talk) 14:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am long time editor. I've done dozen of RfCs. Signed few of them. This is first time anyone has complained. Seems like a you thing. NickCT (talk) 14:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's a requirement thing. And apparently the administrator who signed it for you agrees. If you've done dozens of them but have only signed a few of them, that's wrong. You should sign all of them, just like it's done in all the other RfCs. Your uncivil and uncooperative behavior over such a basic issue is disappointing. It's a shame that it took an administrator to correct what you refused to do. Yes, you're a long time editor; so you should know better and do better. Stoarm (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When did I refuse to do it? I said I was considering it. You're either intentionally mischaracterizing or having trouble reading.

RedRose seemed to think it's important for neutrality. Since I've asked you whether you felt the RfC was neutral and you didn't respond, I can only assume you disagree. So again, what do you feel the benefit is?

You don't think it's a little goofy that you were trying to make a point about how important it was to sign, when it was in fact, already signed? If it was really that important, wouldn't you have recognized? NickCT (talk) 16:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update: The issue is now moot. I just noticed that an administrator appropriately signed for you since you failed to do so. You can also see that their edit summary says you violated WP:RFCNEUTRAL by making yours the first !vote. In the future, I hope you will follow the requirement to sign any RfCs that you initiate. I was trying to be nice by asking you (multiple times) to please sign it, rather than making it a noticeboard issue for an admin to handle. Stoarm (talk) 14:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see that. Acutally I think the sig was in the wrong place. @Redrose64: - For the record, I try to make a really clear distinction between the neutrally phrased RfC and my non-neutral position on the RfC by separating them into different sections.

Out of curiousity, does anyone feel like I actually phrased this RfC non-neutrally, or are we arguing about angels on the head of a pin? If you feel like I was being non-neutral in posing the question, I'm happy to consider that. NickCT (talk) 14:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's nothing to do with sections. WP:RFCNEUTRAL says Legobot will copy the markup of your statement (from the end of the {{rfc}} tag through the first timestamp) to the list of active RfCs. Note that this says timestamp, not signature, and in this edit we find that it copied up to and including the "13:01, 25 September 2050 (UTC)", even though it is clearly a bogus timestamp and the preceding signature used a fake username. Quite apart from the fact that bogus timestamps can cause problems for Legobot further down the line, a major problem is that having the line beginning "Support Option A" included in the RfC listings has given the impression that a real opinion was part of the RfC statement, which goes against Keep the RfC statement (and heading) neutrally worded. My edit placed a real signature and a correct timestamp (copied from further down the page) before those non-neutral items, with this effect; but my effort was nullified by this edit, with this effect.

In making this edit, Floquenbeam (talk · contribs) has not helped matters by dropping their own sig into the middle of the statement, with this effect. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Redrose64: - Mea culpa. I messed up the bot. I hope we can all appreciate the "fake" usernames/timestamps were not an attempt to decieve anyone. I've tried to correct it. NickCT (talk) 00:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Stoarm (talk) 20:39, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey guys. This conversation seemed to disappear before I got a chance to see it, so I'm responding here.

Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.

@Ad Orientem: - I'm not sure if you want to come down from the ivory tower that is ANI, but this debate could be quickly resolved by simply closing Talk:Scott_Adams#RfC_:_Use_"racist"_in_Wikipedia's_voice?. A certain editor seems to be having trouble letting go of language that this RfC has shown is not right. NickCT (talk) 13:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted a link to the RfC at BLPN. If the general trajectory of the discussion doesn't change over the next few days, I will consider closing it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On a side note... Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.

Tread carefully with the snark. My note at ANI was intended as a friendly word of caution. But being blunt, some of your past commentary has had an abrasive edge to it that is not conducive to cordial debate. I would strongly prefer not to have to address this subject again. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't start the fires Ad. And I certainly don't go whining about other's disruptive behaviors.

I appreciate your helping with the RfC, b/c many others wouldn't have bothered, but you are pandering to bad behavior. NickCT (talk) 19:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you have specific concerns about other editors, you are free to raise those in the appropriate forum. The subject here are your biting comments directed at/about another editor. And they are to stop. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to raise them. I'm going to fix them. As I sought to end edit warring w/ this RfC. Let's finish up the RfC. We can eliminate the language I sought to eliminate a month ago and we can end the wikidrama. NickCT (talk) 20:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's being discussed in the RFC right now, so please stop edit warring and let it sit at the WP:WRONGVERSION until it's closed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ScottishFinnishRadish: - Fine. I do think there's some level of perversity in us all looking at something, all agreeing it's wrong, then saying "let it be". If it's wrong, why not fix it? NickCT (talk) 17:35, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because someone reverted what you saw as the fix. No reason to go back and forth with the edit while there is an ongoing discussion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC is basically down to choice between the current language and two possible alternatives. No one, not even its initial proponent, supports the current language. Beyond making a point, why not just change it now? NickCT (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because someone objected, and edit warring isn't the way to handle it. As it's already being discussed it can be left at the WP:WRONGVERSION until a consensus emerges. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I guess we can allow a minority opinion to filibuster the process. NickCT (talk) 19:02, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Edit warring is a no no. It's not complicated. There are a few exceptions (vandalism, copyright violations and serious BLP stuff) but that's it. It doesn't matter if you like them or not. Themz the rules until they aren't. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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I've reverted your edit on Qin Gang that labels him as a "missing person." If Western news outlets have not seen you in some time because you got fired, that doesn't make you a missing person. You are obviously trying to push a certain agenda here ("Oh, look China disappeared someone again"), and reading your profile pretty much confirmed it. I urge you to practice restraint. Instead of liberally reading BBC articles that amount to "We don't have a clear window into Chinese internal politics" and twisting into "The former MFA is a MISSING PERSON!!!", wait. Do not make grand conclusions and try to pass them off as fact. That is for your Twitter, not an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AB88:C86:4E00:4517:2B97:E05D:DEA5 (talk) 13:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello IP. Thanks for the comment.

The addition you reverted wasn't actually something that I'd put in.

That said, I'm pretty sure "China disappeared someone again" is a fairly accurate description of what's happened. What's the alternative viewpoint? NickCT (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is more likely is that Xi has been seeking to replace him for a few weeks, so he took Qin out of the public eye while he was looking for a replacement (who is now Wang Yi again).
Firing someone from the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs (or any important role) is not a split decision that gets made in one day. This happens in the West too. When someone is going to get fired, they're relieved of their duties for a couple weeks and then officially let go. For example, in the weeks leading up to the firing of Rex Tillerson and John Bolton, there were articles about them not being invited to meetings anymore.

Now, as to why he hasn't been seen, that's just not really the content that Chinese news media does. They don't get former cabinet members to disgruntled analyses of the administration in which they served like they do in the West. 2A02:AB88:C86:4E00:4517:2B97:E05D:DEA5 (talk) 16:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the thoughts. If you're equating not getting invited to meetings to being disappeared, I'm not sure we're going to find much common ground. NickCT (talk) 21:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Nil Einne (talk) 03:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am deeply concerned from your comments at Talk:Fu Xiaotian like [1] that you appear to have a disdain for WP:BLP that is completely inappropriate for an editor of your experience. You really should know by now that BLP issues are serious. and it is not forum shopping to raised BLP issues at WP:BLP/N if you feel the response you are getting to BLP concerns is not adequate. That is a key purpose of having the noticeboard. I strongly suggest you re-read BLP and quickly learn the seriousness of BLP policy. If you continue to have such an utterly unacceptable disdain for BLP after that, then you need to seriously voluntarily refraining from editing considering all situations where BLP applies or at least direct article editing. If you fail to do that and instead continue to ignore BLP concerns or treat them as unimportant, don't be surprised if you receive a BLP topic ban. Nil Einne (talk) 03:39, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Nil Einne: - Disdain for BLP? I have every dain for BLP. BLP is the only thing that protects us from trolls harming the reputation of innocent subjects w/ shoddy research and rumor mongering. BLP is about protecting people.

Have you considered that the folks on the other side of this argument are using BLP as an excuse to harm people? Let me ask you this; if you got snatched by a foreign govnernment, would you want your Wikipedia article to note that? Or would you want it to use somekind of euphimism? NickCT (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, NickCT. After reviewing the situation regarding Fu Xiaotian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Qin Gang (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), I am issuing you the following logged warning under the contentious topic procedures for the BLP topic area, in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator and informed by comments of other experienced editors at WP:BLPN and WP:AN/I:

You are warned for repeatedly restoring challenged content to two BLPs, without support from reliable sources but rather based on your own interpretation. Further restoration of challenged content to BLPs may lead to a topic ban from BLPs related to the Chinese Communist Party or from BLPs in general, or other appropriate sanctions, without further warning.

-- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin: - Thanks for the input and apologies on a delayed response. Obviously this converastion is a little stale now, but for the record;

What's "sourced" is that the Chinese foreign minister fell out of favor with the CCP and was erased (NYT) (some use the term "purged" (Gaurdian]) after rumors of an affair with Fu, who has also gone missing (Quartz)(Sidney Morning Herald).

My "interpretation" as you've called it, seems to be that Fu and Qin's disappearance is a "forced disappearance".

I don't accept that calling folks who, after displeasing the CCP, "mysteriously vanish" (RS wording, not mine (USA Today)) "foricibly disappeared" is an "interpretation". I don't accept that that's an "interpretation", in the same sense that I don't accept that calling a person who has been decapitated, "dead", is an interpretation. It's an obvious consequence. Not an interpretation.

I respectfully suggest that anyone who thinks that a person who "mysteriously vanish" in China after displeasing the CCP has vanished voluntarily is probably extraordinarily niave to how things work in China.

Of course, niavity in this case is probably being blended with some CCP apologism and some BLP ultraorthodoxists, who can't accept that the fundamental rationale for BLP was to try to protect people. As we ought to try to protect people who have been "disappeared". NickCT (talk) 15:20, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, Wikipedia works based on consensus, and as far as I can tell not a single other person has agreed with your interpretation, across two talkpages and two noticeboard threads. Failure to heed consensus, particularly on a BLP, goes from a content issue to a conduct issue, and that's why I issued this warning. If you'd like to appeal the warning, you may follow the procedures at Wikipedia:Contentious topics § Appeals and amendments. Absent a successful appeal of that warning, however, what I said above about potential sanctions stands. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 18:26, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, the edit I was initially defending wasn't my own. So obviously someone agrees with me.

The problem is that one of the editors involved forum shopped at the BLP noticeboard. As much as I like those guys, they are the sort that won't accept a person who was decapitated is also dead, unless you produce a source that explicitly uses the word "dead". NickCT (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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soibangla (talk) 18:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - please bring more WP:Civility to your edits on Project 2025 and posts on the talk page Superb Owl (talk) 18:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There ain't nothing wrong with being interested in conspiracy theories. I'm interested in them myself. Is there a reason you guys aren't comfortable with your interests? NickCT (talk) 18:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

so then you doubled-down and continued to misuse an article Talk page for a wholly irrelevant purpose. do you think you're clever and nobody notices? soibangla (talk) 00:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. NickCT (talk) 13:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You keep harassing editors and making fun of them as conspiracy theorists instead of discussing the edits. Superb Owl (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're pursuing me to my talkpage, so don't accuse me of harrassing anyone.

To be clear, there's nothing fun or funny about pushing WP:FRINGE theories on WP. It makes the project look silly. NickCT (talk) 17:33, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]