Talk:Rafael Caro Quintero: Difference between revisions

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I just wanted to post that Rafael is not the founder of the Sonora Cartel. This cartel was formed after the Guadalajara Cartel disintegrated (after his arrest). His brother headed this group, however. [1] ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 20:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Caro Quintero is a wanted fugitive in 190 countries, including the U.S. and Mexico. If arrested abroad, the drug lord will be immediately extradited to Mexico"

This statement is total propaganda. It's obviously not encyclopedic. Just pointing out the obvious in case anyone understands or cares. 143.215.116.164 (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi, thank you for your interest in Caro Quintero. That sentence shows that Caro Quintero is a fugitive for the Interpol. Here is the source for such information. It is backed up by the last sentence in the article. Feel free to disagree with me, however. I am willing to work on finding a middle ground with you. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 05:25, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removed "Alleged", Changed "Lord" to "Trafficker"

Quintero spent 28 years in prison following his arrest, trial and conviction. Once a defendant in a trial is prosecuted successfully, allegations become convictions. That said, I realize Quintero was not convicted of drug trafficking or possession, which is why I have opted to simply remove alleged instead of change alleged to convicted. My point is that Quintero was charged with murdering a DEA agent. During his trial, the motive for this murder was established as protecting the interests of Quintero's drug trafficking business. He was then convicted of the murder with this motive established in court. Describing Quintero's activities using the sole adjective "alleged" is, I think, confusing to the reader, who is likely to assume based on that language that Quintero has not been convicted of anything narco-related. Dropping the alleged without adding convicted is the best resolution I could come up with for avoiding confusion while not insinuating Quintero was convicted of any additional crimes. I'm absolutely open to assistance, clarification and debate on this topic from other editors, though!

Further, the term "drug lord" is not an appropriate description for any subject of a living bio here on wikipedia. "Drug Lord" is language fit for tabloid headlines, not an encyclopedia. Before my changes, the term "Drug Lord" was used 25 times to describe Quintero. Most often, it was used as a pronoun, as in, "the Drug Lord". This pronoun usage, in particular, strikes me as loaded to the point of presenting NPOV issues. Where this is the case I have simply used an actual pronoun (he) or the subject's name, Caro Quintero or simply Quintero. "Trafficker" is a more professional description of his activities, with the article itself providing clarification of his leadership role within his organization. Please note that I am not a Quintero apologist; my point is that, despite his crimes, Quintero is still the subject of a BLP and as such we must do our best to avoid weasel words and dehumanizing descriptions. Thanks Jaydubya93 (talk) 12:46, 25 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jaydubya93, I agree about the use of "drug lord" - in fact, I removed a number of instances of it. On the other point, hasn't his conviction been overturned, which is why he was released? I did read something that suggested that there were other convictions that hadn't been overturned, but it wasn't clear what they were. Neljack (talk) 05:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Neljack - thanks, I hope I didnt come off as overly=dogmatic in my first comment, but I feel very strongly that BLP subjects need to be provided with a great deal of deference - particularly those who have been accused of crimes or are otherwise socially ostracized. Anyway, you are of course right about the over-turning which has lead to his release. Whats murky for me at this point is - were all item of his original indictment overturned? If he had a multi-charge concurrent sentence, and some of those charges were already satisfied by time served, it wouldn't be uncommon for those to be left to stand. Further, as best I can tell US political pressure has lead to a new manhunt for the just-released Quintero. Its unclear what they will do if they find him; extradite, try under new charges or make some sort of double-jeopardy end run. All of the coverage of this has been incredibly skewed even by international drug war standards. (The Guardian said the US is "furious" over his release. Dallas News called it an "outrage").

We need to get our hands on some actual court documents IMO to make sense of this (assuming that is legal - I have no experience with the Mexican justice system). Once we have good reliable source material that isn't trial-by-newspaper, we should change the language addressing his legal status as best as possible. I still stand by my notion to remove "Alleged" based solely on editorial concerns and not factual ones. "Alleged" strongly implies an arrest without charge, a charge without trial, or an acquittal - none of which accurately depicts what happened with Quintero's case. The state has many advantages against the accused in a criminal proceeding. One of those advantages is that English doesn't have a word that describes someone as wrongly convicted (at least to my memory - please correct my mistake if I'm wrong!). We use words like "innocent" that have all sorts of connotations that make it easy to bar entry. IMO a NPOV here is a description of Quintero as illegally convicted as a criminal defendant but not innocent as a human being. Jaydubya93 (talk) 15:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The DEA is upset because a person whom they think murdered a DEA agent has been set free, and of course they should be if this is the case. They have posted a billboard on the Santa Ana Freeway in Downey, present Aug 22 2014. "Reward $5 million for info leading to the arrest of Quintero." How do they know he murdered the DEA agent? Carrillo was convicted of the murder. How do they know that Carrillo was not trying to get leniency by fingering Quintero? How evil can a guy be who spends his own money improving public projects? Money he supposedly got by "allegedly" trafficking a product that is now legal in many states in the US?