Talk:New York (state)/FAQ: Difference between revisions

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Below are answers to frequently asked questions about the corresponding page New York (state). They address concerns, questions, and misconceptions which have repeatedly arisen on the talk page. Please feel free to change this material in light of new discussion.

Why is this article not simply titled "New York"? Or why isn't the New York City article simply titled "New York"?

This topic has been discussed many times, but until 2017, community consensus had never been achieved to move New York state to another title (e.g. New York State, State of New York) and have New York redirect to New York City. Another option was to make New York a disambiguation page letting the reader pick the article on the state, the city, or any other related topics; this idea was implemented in July 2017 after more than 15 years of status quo established in the early days of Wikipedia. Proposals occurred in Oct–Nov 2004, Feb 2005, Feb–Sep 2005, Mar–Aug 2008, Oct–Nov 2010, Aug 2011, Jan 2013 and Jul 2013. In June-July 2016, the article was moved to New York (state), but this decision was overturned at move review. Then Talk:New York/July 2016 move request was closed as no consensus. A subsequent August 2016 RFC reached consensus that the State of New York is not the primary topic for the term "New York", advising further discussions. In October 2016, the June-July 2016 move discussion outcome maintaining the status quo was endorsed at move review. Finally, after a drafting debate and a renewed move request, the state article was moved to New York (state) on July 19, 2017; New York now holds the disambiguation page. There is an informal and non-binding but popular moratorium on further moves until 2018, when some editors have said they intend to test consensus on instead making New York City the destination of the base name New York.

Was Manhattan/New York City really bought for a very small amount of currency (be it $24, one string of wampum, etc.)?

No. Charles Gehring, Director of the New Netherland Project, explains this myth in a video (skip ahead to 3:03) by the New York State Museum. In it, he says, "This is one of the biggest myths ... pure fabrication. It says in the records that it was 60 guilders worth of goods. 60 guilders worth of goods would have been a lot of hard goods that the Indians couldn't produce themselves. You couldn't place a price on the ... things that they were unable to make, the things they didn't have the technology for. The $24 figure was attached to the document when it was translated in the 1880s. The translators looked up the rate of exchange at the time and 60 guilders was $24. Nobody has ever even adjusted that for inflation over the years, so you not only have an incorrect rate of exchange, but the whole idea of what 60 guilders would have been worth to the Indians at the time is totally wrong." US$24 in 1880 would be worth $758 today, though Gehring states the rate of exchange was also incorrect.

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 |q=Why is this article not simply titled "[[New York]]"? Or why isn't the [[New York City]] article simply titled "New York"?
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 This topic has been discussed many times, but until 2017, [[WP:Consensus|community consensus]] had never been achieved to move New York state to another title (e.g. [[New York State]], [[State of New York]]) and have [[New York]] [[WP:REDIRECT|redirect]] to [[New York City]]. Another option was to make [[New York]] a [[WP:Disambiguation|disambiguation page]] letting the reader pick the article on the state, the city, or [[New York (disambiguation)|any other related topics]]; this idea was implemented in July 2017 after more than 15 years of status quo established in the early days of Wikipedia. Proposals occurred in [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 1#Propose rename of this article to "New York State"|Oct–Nov 2004]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 1#Title of article|Feb 2005]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 1#PROPOSED MOVE|Feb–Sep 2005]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 3#Hi there I have a proposition|Mar–Aug 2008]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 4#Should New York be a disam page|Oct–Nov 2010]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 5#Requested_move|Aug 2011]], [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 5#my peepee says hi|Jan 2013]] and [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 5#new york --> NYC|Jul 2013]].  In June-July 2016, [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 5#Requested move 9 June 2016|the article was moved]] to [[New York (state)]], but this decision was overturned at [[Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2016 June#New York (state)|move review]]. Then [[Talk:New York/July 2016 move request]] was closed as no consensus. A subsequent [[Talk:New York (state)/Archive 6|August 2016 RFC]] reached consensus that the [[State of New York]] is not the [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC|primary topic]] for the term "New York", advising further discussions. In October 2016, the June-July 2016 move discussion outcome maintaining the status quo was endorsed at [[Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2016 October|move review]]. Finally, after a [[Talk:New York/Proposed move|drafting debate]] and a [[Talk:New York#Requested move 7 July 2017|renewed move request]], the state article was moved to [[New York (state)]] on July 19, 2017; [[New York]] now holds the disambiguation page.
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 |q=Was Manhattan/New York City really bought for a very small amount of currency (be it $24, one string of [[wampum]], etc.)?