Wikipedia:Quickpolls

Quickpolls are polls among Wikipedia regulars on issues that need to be quickly resolved.

After mixed reactions in the 30-day review process (see the talk page,) this page has fallen into disuse. It is unclear whether new Quickpolls started here will have community support.

Policies

You are responsible for reading Wikipedia:Quickpolls policy before using this page. Quickpolls are not for arbitrary issues between users.

Concluded polls should be moved to Wikipedia:Quickpolls/Archive (which also includes an example poll).

Please vote using this format:    #~~~~ - Optional comments.

Both users are now fighting edit wars across almost a dozen articles, in continuation of their long running conflict on this site. I think it's time both of them were given a 24 hour time out period.

Articles where they are currently edit warring: Cu Chi tunnels, My Lai Massacre, Vietnam War, Tunnel rat, USS Ticonderoga (CV-14), USS Talledega (LPA 208), USS Tripoli (LPH-10) Vietnam Service, 1967-1973, USS John S. McCain (DD-928), North Vietnamese Army, Vo Nguyen Giap, Ho Chi Minh trail, Mekong Delta, Indochina War, and Tunnels of Cu Chi.

This latest round (in a long running conflict) appears to have started when 172 went through numerous articles and search-placed "American" with "U.S.". VV then countered. Edit wars ensued. →Raul654 21:30, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

I was careful not to break the three revert rule this time. I let VeryVerily have his versions after one attempt to stop him on each article (in hope that this would get someone else to see what's going on)-- I joined the Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club last days ago, after all. Find an article where I did not adhere to the three revert rule and just let VV win. You people voting to ban me are being amazingly hypocritical. Someone goes through my user history every time he logs on, reverts any change that I make, and this time I just let him. And now you people are voting to ban me because I have a stalker and I'm not even doing anything about it? 172 22:51, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

1. →Raul654 21:39, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
2. Guanaco 21:43, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
3. BCorr|Брайен 21:58, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
4. William M. Connolley 22:28, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
5. Gentgeen 22:48, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
6. RickK 23:44, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
7. Ilyanep 00:50, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC). I agree with both, bust most especially 172. He has been involved in quite a few arguments and hasn't exactly established a moral high ground on some (see my Talk Archive 1 ). Wikipedia should be a co-operative place. BTW, I thought 172 had publicly stated that he 'left wikipedia'.
8. Stargoat 02:23, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC) Seems like every time I turn around, these two are arguing about something else.
9. Cyan 03:30, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

1. Viajero 22:18, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC) — no excuse whatsoever for such stalking behaviour
2. Danny 23:17, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC) more evidence of how a determined troll can harrass a user.
   • Next time try to adhere to Wikipedia's No Personal Attacks policy. Ok, señor admin? --Cantus
     • Is there any other way to say what Danny's trying to say? VeryVerily's one and only reason for being on Wikipedia is stalking me. Some users look at their watchlist to decide what pages they're going to edit; instead, VeryVerily obsesses over my user history. Aside from knowingly making edits that'll trap me in an edit war, for months he has been trying to enflame tensions between me and other users. Now that I joined the "Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club," he sees this good faith offer on my part as a free reign to now revert absolutely every single change that I make. Why is this not patently obvious to all of you people? Just look at his user history. When he can't figure out how to pick a fight with me, all he does is make some minor changes to articles finds through the random page feature. But above all else, this user is just a stalker how gets a kick out of trying to drive me off this site. 172 23:48, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
       • I assume any user familiar with the conflict knows better than to buy into this analysis, but one point worth mentioning is that I find 172's commitment to harmonious editing about as credible as his repeated declarations of leaving Wikipedia. If his editing style of bullying and abuse does truly change, I will notice it in due time. VV 01:56, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
         • VeryVerily has been going through my user history and reverting every single change that I make. I've been giving up trying to stop him after one try-- or in a few cases a couple of attempts-- since joining the Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club. By virtue of the fact that I'm letting him get away with this practice on every single article, by virtue of the fact that his reverts are now the top version of every single article that I've tried to edit lately, the pledge is obviously sincere. I have not been "bullying" anyone; VeryVerily has been "bullying" me while playing the victim by writing similarly untruthful and misleading statements over and over again where ever he can manage to follow me around. 172 03:12, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
           • I have been reverting edits pertaining to a particular naming conflict, not all of 172's. 172's claim he is not bullying anyone ignores a months-long history of misbehavior, well prior to his supposed decision to become harmonious. VV 09:24, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
             • Heh, months-long history of misbehavior. I guess I had been violating the three revert rule. Of course, VeryVerily has never done that, right. 172 10:28, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
3. Based on the Pinochet article VV does not seem to be willing to compromise in spite of facts or consensus. Most of his supporters also tend to be people who just dislike 172 for political rather than academic or civility reasons and let their dislike blind any ability for objective analysis of the situation (particularly on the mailing list). Considering the disproportionate nature of attacks on 172 (who still holds a position as a trusted member of the community i.e admin) I think a 24 hour ban on VV would be appropriate in order to show a corresponding call by the community for reform on his part as well as 172s. I would submit for the record however that VV has not (from my view) violated the three revert rule or gone on a rampage (as currently defined). GrazingshipIV 13:10, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)

1. Cantus 21:43, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC) - Ridiculous.
2. —No-One Jones 23:35, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC) - though I don't endorse VV's behavior, which was unacceptable. I suggest, instead, working on the naming conventions which are the issue in this dispute, especially for usage of US or American. This, I think, would ultimately be much more productive and engender fewer hard feelings.
3. Jiang 23:44, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC) - will change my vote when this flares up again.
4. Hephaestos|§ 00:29, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC) A 24-hour ban is an ineffective joke for anything but casual vandalism.
5. JCarriker 00:36, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)- They both could have handled the situation better and they both have been involved in scuffles at other pages with other users. However I don't think we should be treating established wikipedians as if they were mere anon vandals. A 24 ban is a serious step, especially against established members of the community, and I am not yet ready to make such a move. I agree with --No-One Jones that the best way to handle the situation is to begin a dialogue with the users over the naming convention. I will change my vote if the situation worsens.
6. Comrade Nick @)---^-- 02:53:30, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)-Banning either user for 24 hours would be ineffective, this matter should go to the AC.
7. I didn't know that there was a consensus to return to using quickpolls, and there don't seem to be any three revert rule violations. john k 06:31, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

   A three-revert violation is not the only reason for listing users here. Rampages are also explicetely covered, and I think it's pretty obvious that this qualifies. →Raul654 06:34, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

8. Cecropia | Talk 12:33, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC) As a matter of principle, I oppose banning ongoing non-vandal contributors except for the most egregious violations; not only is it an insult, but I don't see how a temporary ban would create anything other than a pause and resentment. What we really need is a way to deal with the substance of obvious conflicting points-of-view. In this case, I think 172 is in the wrong for compulsively insisting that other people should be able to self-describe (i.e., he changes any instance of Viet Cong to NLF), but won't allow Americans to self-describe lest it insult people in the Americas, which describes both continents. "American" is the adjective for a citizen of the U.S.A. Abe's substitutions to avoid use of an adjective are often clumsy, sometimes inaccurate, and quite POV. We need a way to consider these issues, rather than have 24-hour bans of regular contributors. -- Cecropia | Talk 12:33, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• wikipedia is not a babysitting service. hand-wringing about "insult" is irrelevant. making a troll or other belligerant user "feel bad" is not relavent. Badanedwa 17:15, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)
  • Feeling good is not my issue. I want to do what is effective instead of slapping people on the wrist. I consider neither 172 nor VV to be trolls. -- Cecropia | Talk 17:49, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

1. Grunt 04:17, 2004 Jun 13 (UTC) A ban is not going to help, and will probably instead make things worse. I would warn both of them to at least discuss exactly why they seem to be arguing here and, failing that, bringing in mediation or arbitration.

1. indeterminant at this time. v v user's edit history suggests careful trolling; possibly for pov purpose. 172 user is a pov warrior, not a troll. Badanedwa 17:59, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

• What rule has been violated? Please provide links to the page histories. - Tεxτurε 21:32, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
  • I believe the rampage rule applies to both users, in this case. →Raul654 21:34, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
• 172 took it to "Vandalism in progress" and insisted it be kept on that page - something that's obviously either an editing or personality conflict being put on a page for immediate alerts. No vote, but I would expect him to know better - David Gerard 23:38, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• I have blocked VV at 23:32 because 8 users voted, and 87.5% supported a ban. --"DICK" CHENEY 23:34, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
  • I disagree. Only two people voted to block VV. This was an inappropriate block unless both were blocked. RickK 23:43, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Just for the record, Jiang has undone this ban (because only two people had voted for VV alone to be banned). --Camembert
• What the hell happened to mediation? Both should refrain from these changes until policy has been formulated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (US vs American). --Jiang 23:47, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
• I think it's wrong, utterly wrong, to view this problem as a problem with individual users. I think it's a general problem with Wikipedia's working, that tends to turn valuable contributors into arrogant un-cooperative reverters every now and then. And that problem is not solved by 24-hours bans.
  --Ruhrjung 23:50, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
  • I agree wholeheartedly. Let's just absolve everyone from responsibility then- it's all right, must be Wikipedia's fault. We can say the same of routine petty vandalism as well. Some design flaw in the internal mechanisms. Let's dissolve Wikipedia altogether, that should fix it. - Fennec 02:54, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
    • Well, look at how well it's been fixed with the arsenal we have at hands.
      --Ruhrjung 03:08, 2004 Jun 12 (UTC)
  • damage to wikipedia will be reversed and prevented, or won't be. Badanedwa 16:00, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)
• As part of a long-running dispute, this probably ought to be in mediation. I'm not sure a 24-hour ban would help anything, although perhaps it would convince one or both to tread more lightly. Isomorphic 00:36, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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