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*'''Comment''' - None of this discussion about ''Folkstsaytung'' being a historical newspaper is relevant, because "(Kiev)" is not part of the title of the newspaper. It's a disambiguator. We don't use disambiguators that match the time period of the article they are disambiguating. For example, it's [[El Tiempo (Istanbul)]] and [[Guozijian (Beijing)]], not [[El Tiempo (Constantinople)]] and [[Guozijian (Peking)]] ([[Kuo-tzu-chien (Peking)]] is a redirect). We have three titles that use (Peking), all redirects [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%2F%5C%28Peking%5C%29%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1&searchToken=944epicwxa0508mz4z4pzor4n]. 24 titles that use (Constantinople), all of them redirects except two, which are articles about parts of the ancient city of Constantinople [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&ns0=1&search=intitle%3A%2F%5C%28Constantinople%5C%29%2F&advancedSearch-current={}]. We have 34 titles using (Kyiv) already [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&ns0=1&search=intitle%3A%2F%5C%28Kyiv%5C%29%2F&advancedSearch-current={}]. OK, big finish: '''49 titles using (Kiev), and they are ''all redirects except for this one''''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&ns0=1&search=intitle%3A%2F%5C%28Kiev%5C%29%2F&advancedSearch-current={}]. That's why we shouldn't use "(Kiev)" for a disambiguator, instead we should use "(Kyiv)", per [[WP:CONDAB]] and [[WP:CONSISTENT]]. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 18:02, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
**As the creator of ''[[El Tiempo (Istanbul)]]'', I'd point out that the history of that publication stretches from both Ottoman and Turkish Republic periods, and that the opening passage of the article says it was published in "Constantinople/Istanbul". --[[User:Soman|Soman]] ([[User talk:Soman|talk]]) 20:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
**: And a reader looking for more about the city might follow the first link, whereat the first words are “This article is about the historical city from 330 to 1453.” I sincerely suggest that “[[Istanbul]] (Constantinople)” would be better there. —''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]] [[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 20:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
::::: ''El Tiempo'''s existence stretches past 1923, when the English name was changed to Istanbul. This one doesn't go past 1919. Not even close to comparable. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 22:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::1930, not 1923. ''El Tiempo'' ceased publication in 1930. [[Names of Istanbul]]: {{tqq|Names other than استانبول (İstanbul) had become obsolete in the Turkish language after the establishment of the Republic of Turkey [29 October 1923]. However, at that point Constantinople was still used when writing the city's name in Latin script. In 1928, the Turkish alphabet was changed from the Arabic to the Latin script. Beginning in 1930, Turkey officially requested that other countries use Turkish names for Turkish cities, instead of other transliterations to Latin script that had been used in the Ottoman times.}} [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 23:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::::: Still within the time frame. By contrast, 1919 is nowhere near 1995. But if that really bugs you, we can do an RM to move "El Tiempo (Constantinople)", and see how that goes. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 23:13, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::"El Tiempo (Constantinople)" would violate [[WP:CONDAB]] just like "Folkstsaytung (Kiev)". [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 23:52, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
:::: I disagree. It's sufficiently within the timeframe to allow Istanbul, but we can put it for RM, if you'd like. Publications and bibiographies distinguish by place of imprint at time of publication, e.g. we refer to the Soviet magazine ''Zvedza'' as published in Leningrad, not St. Petersburg. Kant's works were published in Konigsburg, not Kaliningrad. If a publication overlaps in time frame, then we can take the more modern version. But there is no overlap here. ''Folkstsaytung'' was published in Kiev in 1917-1919, and that's how all the secondary sources refer to it. Not only is it historical usage, its RS usage. I don't see a reason to make the article title less recognizable to readers who might be looking for it. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 01:17, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::This is about a parenthetical disambiguator. We don't use "(Leningrad)" or "(Konigsburg)" as a parenthetical disambiguator for any article (just one redirect for Leningrad). [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 01:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
::: By happenstance. We don't use many parenthetical disambiguators period - especially not locations ([[WP:NCDAB]] urges us to avoid proper nouns in parenthesis). So there are not many examples to draw from. It seems in this case a proper noun might not be avoidable (BTW, this article is missing a hatnote to the other [[Folkstsaytung]] article). But the guidance should still be recognizability and usefulness to readers. Adding "(Kiev)" helps general readers who come to it via Yiddish or early 20th Century literature, since that is how their RS's will refer to it, and that's how they will recognize it. And readers of Wikipedia are more important than the peculiar preferences of editors. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 02:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Dozens of articles use "(Kyiv)" as a parenthetical disambiguator [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%2F%5C%28Kyiv%5C%29%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1], so it's not that rare. Only this one uses "(Kiev)". [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 02:18, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
::
Ugh. There's a lot of bad article titling there. Anyway, not "dozens", but about twenty, several of which should be changed to "X, Kyiv" or parenthesis omitted entirely since they are already unique. Anyway, there's a reason we're using "(Kiev)" rather than "(newspaper founded 1917)" or "(Rafes's newspaper)" as disambiguator - no, it is not to satisfy the vanity of Ukrainian nationalists, it is because that's what makes it easier for readers to recognize and find. And that takes priority. "(Kyiv)" does not achieve that, since RS's do not use that in reference to this newspaper. It was published in Kiev in 1917-1919, and that is how it is referenced and referred to. [[User:Walrasiad|Walrasiad]] ([[User talk:Walrasiad|talk]]) 02:32, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
::: The article is necessarily for people who refer to Wikipedia, and not necessarily for people who have read the reliable sources about this newspaper. —''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]] [[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 02:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
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