Commons talk:Picture of the Year

• Round 1 will start 1 October 2024, 00:00.
• About the contest
• Voting pages
• Rules & eligibility
• Help & feedback

Voting unavailable

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Hey everyone! Because of the rewrite I am doing to the code running POTY, there are some changes I've made that I'd like to inform people about.

• I've created a prototype for a new interface, which I'd appreciate any feedback on. To do so, add importScript("User:Ingenuity/POTY-interface.js") to Special:MyPage/common.js, and then navigate to this page. It's very basic at the moment, but more features will be added later.
• The categories have been changed somewhat due to technical reasons. The new ones can be seen at User:Ingenuity/sandbox.
• Right now the eligibility requirements for voting are complicated. Unless there are any objections, I'd like to simplify this to:

1. Registered before the start of the year, and
2. 75 edits on any single project.

• To use the new code, I will need to delete the pages already created for this year's contest (specifically, Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2023/R1/Gallery and its subpages). Again, unless there are objections, I'll tag these pages as G6.

Courtesy pings to people who have commented above: @AirshipJungleman29, Giles Laurent, ArionStar, Randy Kryn, and Chipmunkdavis: Ingenuity (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should also ping everyone currently on the committee: @Legoktm, Rhododendrites, AntiCompositeNumber, and ZI Jony: Ingenuity (talk) 15:58, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, thanks for your work on this. It’s looks good to me! However, I'd suggest to develop full version and test on beta before implement. I expect Rhododendrites will give some advice soon. Let's clear something, why can't you use the same gallery pages? Where can our vote be seen/how will it be counted? Will it connect to the POTY Admin tools to automate actions? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:03, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony: The current gallery pages rely on Module:POTY, which needs the candidates page, which requires the old scripts to be run. I'm rewriting these scripts, and changing how the candidates are sorted (using JSON format; for example, User:Ingenuity/Arthropods.json.) This has the added benefit of eliminating the need for Module:POTY at all, reducing the number of moving parts and making it simpler for future organizers while keeping the same functionality. The votes will be counted in a similar way to previous years, with a voting page for each image. These pages will have the form Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/R1/votes/<filename>. I'm not sure if it'll be connected to Toolforge right now, but the goal is to make it simple to run, even for people with limited technical knowledge. Ingenuity (talk) 14:00, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, thanks for your response and work. Please continue and keep us posted, I believe we are on a better way to get something. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:52, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your work on this! I'm at wikimania at the moment but happy to take a look when I return on Monday. I will say categorization is a recurring tricky issue. The archives of this page may be useful. In general, some year to year flexibility would be useful because what gets nominated is so dependent on who happens to be active at FPC that year. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  16:13, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization is definitely tricky - it'd probably be best to have around the same number of pictures in each category, but that could be difficult. Maybe changing the way finalists are selected could work? Right now it's top 30 overall, plus top 2 in each category; we could change this to top 30 overall, plus top 5-10% in each category. That would reduce the impact of having different category sizes. Ingenuity (talk) 17:23, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just tried the new prototype interface and it looks very good to me! Congratulations on doing this so quickly!

• I think the most important thing is to be able to keep the contest running and as long that we have a basic interface that allows to do so, the rest is just extra bonus. But maybe one thing that should be added : images should maybe be displayed in a random order every time that you reload the page (or other possibility : to have a random display order for every different user but the order then stays the same for each user). The reason behind this is because for big galleries, people will tend to maybe just check the first or last images and not the middle ones. The random order would give more fairness for all candidates in my opinion.
• I'm okay with the new eligibility requirements as there's not significant difference.
• For categories I think categories with like 4 images are too small and should be combined, but if there's no other way that's still better than not having POTY
• I'm fine with top 30 overall + a certain percentage for categories instead of +2 of every category. But maybe 10% is a bit too much for categories with 100 images as it would make a lot more finalists than previous years. Maybe 4 or 5% is better ?

Anyway thanks again for your amazing work that is really appreciated! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 23:02, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll definitely randomize the galleries - I was actually just about to implement that! I think 5% of each category, rounding up, is good, since it'll keep the number of finalists around the same as last year (~50). I'll probably merge the categories with under ten candidates if possible. Ingenuity (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes 5% seems good. Thank you for your feedback! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 01:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a good progress! Thanks to all! ★ 13:46, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking about it again, 5% will probably make it harder for small categories to be represented in the finalists. That would be a significant change from the previous years and such a change should probably not be decided by a few comments of the only few people that read about it but by a proper vote. I will start a new topic about it so that people can vote for if they want to keep the top 30 + top 2 of each category rule or switch to percentages. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 01:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey all! I've been doing a lot of programming over the last few days and am ready to share the first draft of the scripts. Unfortunately, due to annoying technical restrictions, it's not practical to have people test the scripts on testwiki themselves; I've attached some images below to show what the new interface looks like at this point.

• 
  Categories page
• 
  Results page
• 
  Gallery page
• 
  Admin interface

The actual interface for voters is very similar to previous years, with some UI changes. The biggest change is that creating pages for POTY, categorizing candidates, tallying votes, selecting finalists, and posting results has been completely automated, so running the contest is basically as simple as pressing four buttons (through a user script, so no Toolforge needed!)

There's still some polishing up that needs to be done, but I'd say around 80% of the work has been done. I'd appreciate any feedback, and I'm happy to answer any questions. Pinging the people in the discussion above: @ArionStar, Giles Laurent, Rhododendrites, and ZI Jony: Ingenuity (talk) 00:56, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will there also be a page containing the number of votes and who voted? ★ 01:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean voting pages for each file? If so, yes; for example, see this page. Ingenuity (talk) 02:02, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great! ★ 02:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, you are amazing, thank you so much!

A few questions/suggestions :

• So in the end you were able to merge some categories? Is it automated or does it need to be done manually every year ?
• Maybe on result page add the following icons depending on the image ranking :
• Can we see a screenshot of round 1 page ?
• Can you also make a function that notifies uploaders/nominators on their talk page of the chosen POTY dates ? Here is what the draft of the actual message looks like.
• Is it necessary to have admin rights to run the contest ? I think abuse filters might be involved for creating many pages, notifying many people, etc.

Thank you again and I'm excited for the contest to start ! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 01:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I merged a few of the smaller categories, to try to keep the sizes above 10 in each. Categorization is fully automated, but if organizers wish to change the categories in the future then that would need to be done manually.
• That's definitely possible. The vote count uses Template:POTY/VoteConstructor, which could be modified to display those icons.
• The interface of the round 1 voting pages is the exact same as the finalist voting page.
• Maybe? At the least, I could automate the creation of a MassMessage list using the script.
• No, admin rights aren't necessary to run the contest.

Ingenuity (talk) 02:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very nice, thank you for your answers!

A few more questions :

• How do you navigate through different categories in round 1 ? Are they on different pages or all on the same page ?
• Could you also add on the vote count page the display of the image at the top and maybe a timestamp for each vote ? If not possible there's no problem !
• Could you also add at the top of each page a new template that looks like this one (but without the unnecessary links that will not be needed anymore) and also this one for the navigation

Giles Laurent (talk) 22:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• See the "categories page" screenshot above. It'll look very similar to the current categories page.
• Technically yes, but I'm not sure if it's needed. The voting page isn't meant to be edited manually.
• Yes, I'll be designing a new header.

Ingenuity (talk) 17:39, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, for admin we required first round end option also. Vote pages will be created automated or we have to create manually? @Giles Laurent, I believe, admin rights to run the contest. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 01:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clicking the "start second round" button automatically ends the first round as well. Vote pages are created automatically. Ingenuity (talk) 02:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! We can set the round 1 contest date for September or something like that… ★ 14:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That should work. I'll be busy starting in around a week, so I'll need someone else to handle the actual running of the contest, along with watchlist notices, maybe MassMessages, etc. Ingenuity (talk) 17:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rhododendrites, AntiCompositeNumber and ZI Jony : can at least one of you confirm if you will be able to handle with running the contest in September/October 2024 with the new scripts? No programming skills are needed -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:24, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Each time I've been on the committee, I express reservations given I have photos in the competition. Each time, folks assure me that it's good to have someone involved with FPC on the committee for input (and that I can be useful with things like categorizing, etc.). However, IMO it would cross a line for me to be the one to formally be running the competition. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  12:45, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My available time is limited, but I should be able to provide the same level of administrator support that I have in previous years. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 13:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ AntiCompositeNumber, since Rhododendrites expressed reservation about running formally the contest himself, would you agree to be the one clicking on these 4 buttons ? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:54, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity is there a point at which you'd be available again? Regardless of who pushes the buttons, I'm wary of kicking off the competition using new tools while you're not available to jump in for fixes. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  12:45, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites: I will definitely be available for bug fixes, but probably not bigger stuff like adding features. Over the next few days I'll iron out as many bugs as I can. I've already tested it fully, but there's always the possibility something goes wrong when there are 100k votes to process vs. the 20 I tested with. Ingenuity (talk) 13:42, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rhododendrites, AntiCompositeNumber, ZI Jony and Ingenuity, can we already set dates ? For example Round 1 of POTY 2023 from 15 September 2024, 00 until 30 September 2024, 23:59:59 and Round 2 of POTY 2023 from 1 October 2024, 00 until 15 October 2024, 23:59:59? Or is it a bit too soon you would prefer start round 1 at beginning of october for example? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest round 1 of POTY 2023 from 1 October 2024, 00 until 15 October 2024, 23:59:59. Before we start, we should have an online meeting to get a better understanding of the new tools. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 20:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, please let me know when your tools are completely ready to launch to fix an online meeting. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 02:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey everyone! Because the new scripts don't use the same phrases as the old ones, some new translations are needed. These can be found at Commons:Picture of the Year/i18n.json (click edit to format). I've already filled out the English and French versions as examples (the French may need editing, since I used Google Translate). I've already added sections for English, French, German, Spanish, and Italian - feel free to add additional languages. Ingenuity (talk) 17:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should the content model be changed to "Translatable message bundle" for that page? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 18:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should probably just be changed to JSON, actually. Ingenuity (talk) 18:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AntiCompositeNumber, could you please change content model of Commons:Picture of the Year/i18n.json to JSON format? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 02:56, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Message Bundles is probably a better idea, but I haven't used it and don't know the details. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 18:41, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am pleased to report that the new scripts are complete! The contest can start at any time (once some interface-edit requests are implemented; hopefully that won't be too long!). I've written a step-by-step guide for organizers (@Rhododendrites, AntiCompositeNumber, and ZI Jony: ); I've already done steps 2, 5, and 6 for setting up the contest, but someone else will need to do the rest. Please let me know if you have any questions, or experience any issues with the scripts. Ingenuity (talk) 21:11, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you again for your awesome work Ingenuity. I have a few questions/observations :

• Will everyone need to edit their own common.js page to be able to vote or will everyone be able to vote without doing it once these 3 edits are made : 1, 2 and 3 ? Because for the moment I only see voting pages when I'm connected to my account
• When I go on this page and then visit a gallery, the only one that loads is the Arthropods one and none of all the others load. Screenshots : Arthropods page and Passeriformes page (it says it's loading but the images never load)
• On the Arthropods page it seems that I can vote eventhough the contest has not yet started (when I click on "Vote for this image", it says "Voted!" in green)
• Based on the Arthropods page, the display of the image seems in the order they where featured. Could we implement the random display order discussed above ?

Thank you in advance for your responses -- Giles Laurent (talk) 07:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent: it looks like you're still using the test version of the script - try changing "User:Ingenuity/POTY-interface.js" to "User:Ingenuity/poty-gallery.js" in your common.js. Once the interface-edit requests are completed, the script will run automatically without each person needing to install it. Ingenuity (talk) 12:22, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just tried as you suggested and everything now works (other galleries, random display order, voting not open, etc.) thank you! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:01, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AntiCompositeNumber: , could you please look into the request at MediaWiki talk:POTY-gallery.js, MediaWiki talk:Gadget-EnhancedPOTY.js, and MediaWiki talk:Common.js. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity can we add back the top of the old header into the new header template ? It added some charisma to the page in my opinion

I'm not very good at css but I tried making a new one that looks like the old one but without the previous unnecessary links. Here is the result.

Demo:
The contest has not yet begun. About the contest Voting pages Rules & eligibility Help & feedback Voting unavailable Picture of the Year 2023 || Introduction – Discussion – Committee || R1 Categories || R2 Finalists || Results

Here is the code (but it would need a bit of improvement) :

<div style="width: auto; display: block !important; height: 69px; box-shadow: 0 11px 15px -7px rgba(0, 0, 0, .32); background: #dda525; background: transparent linear-gradient(#f2c144, #dda525) no-repeat 0 4px;">
<div style="background: rgb(23,23,23); background: linear-gradient(0deg, rgba(23,23,23,1) 0%, rgba(46,46,46,1) 100%); height: 60px; ">
<div style="display: block; height: 37px; border-radius: 2px 2px 0 0; text-decoration: none; font-size: 15px; color: #fff; text-shadow: 0 1px 1px rgba(0, 0, 0, .75); font-weight: 400; opacity: .9;">
<div style="color: white; direction: ltr; height: 37px; padding: 15px 30px 0; margin: 2px 2px 0;">
{|
|-
| <div style="padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 10px;">The contest has not yet begun.</div> || <div style="padding-left: 50px; padding-right: 10px;">About the contest</div> || <div style="padding-left: 50px; padding-right: 10px;">Voting pages</div> || <div style="padding-left: 50px; padding-right: 10px;">Rules & eligibility</div> || <div style="padding-left: 50px; padding-right: 10px;">Help & feedback</div>
|-
|}
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="-moz-box-shadow: 0 1px 6px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.3); -webkit-box-shadow: 0 1px 6px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.3); box-shadow: 0 1px 6px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.3);">
<div style="height: 140px; padding-left: 50px;">[[File:POTY barnstar.svg|154px|frameless|link=]]</div>
<div style="display: block; background-image:-moz-linear-gradient(bottom,#ffcc35, #ffdf82, #ffef99);background-image:o-linear-gradient(bottom,#ffcc35, #ffdf82, #ffef99);background-image:-webkit-linear-gradient(bottom,#ffcc35, #ffdf82, #ffef99);background-image:linear-gradient(to top,#ffcc35, #ffdf82, #ffef99);; -moz-box-shadow: 0 -4px 15px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.20); -webkit-box-shadow: 0 -4px 15px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.20); box-shadow: 0 -4px 15px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.20);">
<div style="padding-left: 45px;">{{Clickable button|{{pgt|Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Help}}|2='''Voting unavailable'''|class=ui-state-disabled}}</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="background: #ffffee; border-bottom: #E7AD00 solid 3px; margin-bottom: 2px; padding: 0.5em 1.6em;"">
<b>[[Commons:Picture of the Year|Picture of the Year]] {{{1}}}</b>
<span style="color: orange; user-select: none;">||</span>
[[Commons:Picture of the Year/{{{1}}}|Introduction]] &ndash; [[Commons talk:Picture of the Year|Discussion]] &ndash; [[Commons:Picture of the Year/Committee|Committee]]
<span style="color: orange; user-select: none;">||</span>
{{abbr|R1|Round 1}} [[Commons:Picture of the Year/{{{1}}}/Gallery|Categories]]
<span style="color: orange; user-select: none;">||</span>
{{abbr|R2|Round 2}} [[Commons:Picture of the Year/{{{1}}}/Gallery/Finalists|Finalists]]
<span style="color: orange; user-select: none;">||</span>
[[Commons:Picture of the Year/{{{1}}}/Results/All|Results]]
</div>

I wasn't able to add back the a:hover on the black bar to make it change color when you put your mouse over it because I don't know how to add external css on wiki. Also I didn't find how to add the links to the white text in the black bar without wiki transforming them into blue color -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:34, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity: any objection to being listed on the committee? I think that it would probably make sense for you to replace Legoktm this year (with many thanks and appreciation to Lego for leading us through the previous two contests!). — Rhododendrites ^talk |  17:46, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea to include @Ingenuity as a committee member. However, I'd suggest to keep Lego as well, it would be better to have two (when Lego comes back) technical support members in the team. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent feel free to add stuff to the header. Ingenuity (talk) 22:41, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, any objection if we listed you on the committee? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:59, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony: that's fine. Ingenuity (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, please add yourself at committee page. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 14:36, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it would be nice having Ingenuity listed in the committee. If that becomes the case, it would be probably be the best that Ingenuity becomes the one pressing these buttons as he would be able to immediately notice if something goes wrong and then fix it. But that would require beeing available at the given dates to click the buttons. Could that be the case? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 07:59, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, since you're now officially a committee member and that your username was added to the committee.json file, would you agree to be the one pressing these buttons or do you prefer that ZI Jony does it? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer Ingenuity to press these remaining buttons as Ingenuity has better understanding of it’s errors. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 18:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony and @Giles Laurent: yes, I can be the one using the script. Ingenuity (talk) 19:05, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just tried bringing back the header top with this new template that is a copy paste from the 2020 version but without the Share + Control Panel buttons. As I'm very unexpercienced with wikicodes etc I was not able to keep the translations that were done in the past. Also, some edits still have to be done with some links and later on depending on the state. If any errors were made or if anyone just wants to improve the header please feel free to edit it. If the header causes any trouble, feel free to delete it back -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to suggest launching the contest one day before the official start date (whenever that date may be) for testing/bugfixing purposes. Does that seem reasonable? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  17:57, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said earlier, my suggestion is round 1 of POTY 2023 from 1 October 2024, 00 until 15 October 2024, 23:59:59. Amd round 2 of POTY 2023 from 16 October 2024, 00 until 31 October 2024, 23:59:59 Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes lauching already one day before official date (in this case 30 September, 00:00:00 UTC if ZI Jony suggested dates are chosen) for bug fixes seems a good idea Rhododendrites. Also, votes made during that day should be kept and not erased in my opinion.

ZI Jony these dates seem perfect to me. Would you agree to be the one pressing the remaining 3 buttons on the dates to choose? (I think button 1 was already pressed) -- Giles Laurent (talk) 07:35, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Giles Laurent, launching a day early for bug fixes sounds like a solid plan. Keeping votes cast during that period is essential to ensure fairness. I'm happy to press the remaining buttons to finalize the dates. Let's get this launch underway! Ingenuity, could you please confirm that you have initialized the year 2023 or not? I believe that there are some restriction given by abuse filter to initialized contest by non-committee member. However, I would also like to hear from Rhododendrites and AntiCompositeNumber. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony: I have already initialized it, so there's no need to do that again. Ingenuity (talk) 14:26, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, I read on your step-by-step guide that clicking some buttons (especially the third one) then needs 1 hour for the script to do everything it needs to do. I guess the script is exectued in javascript by the computer and web browser of the person that clicked. I'm wondering : what would happen if the internet connexion of the person that clicks the button crashes while the script is running ? Would the person need to press the button again or would that create a mess ? Also, are there progress bars once the button is clicked ? Finally, how does one "open the console" to check for errors? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 14:42, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the internet connection crashes for a significant period of time, they will likely need undo any edits they made and press the button again. There aren't progress bars, but the script does say what it is doing. You can open the console by right-clicking the page and pressing "inspect". Ingenuity (talk) 13:35, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The categories have changed. For the most part, I think it's simpler/better, but there are some discussions we need to have to define a couple of them. Specifically, "other places" and "historical".

The current images marked "historical" mostly make sense to me -- older photos. There's one exception, taken last year, of an explosion-damaged building. We also have many old photos of people in the humans category. For the sake of coming to a definition, I'll propose a definition of "pre-2000".

As for "other places" it seems like most of them could easily be moved into settlements, nature views, or constructions. The leftovers are [non-religious] building interiors, and I think there are enough to have a category dedicated to them. I propose changing "other places" to "building interiors".

Thoughts? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  18:43, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO, the POTY categories should be the same as the FP categories. ★ 04:15, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to get more feedback on this. @ZI Jony, AntiCompositeNumber, and Giles Laurent: (and pinging a couple people who I know are involved with FPC categorization, @W.carter and Aristeas: ).
The categories (see here: Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Gallery, but the counts are off at the moment) do start with the FP categories, but some combination is necessary (there are too many FP cats for the number of POTY candidates). As a result either of this combination or of consistency issues in the categorization process at FPC, we wind up with some counterintuitive/confusing results. For example, historical portraits listed both under historical and under people. Or a strangely cluttered "other places", with lots of content that overlaps other categories. My two proposals are (a) define historical as pre-2000, and (b) rename "other places" as [non-religious] "building interiors". — Rhododendrites ^talk |  01:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with proposal (a). For proposal (b) I don't know at the moment. Are you sure you would be able to recategorize all images that are not non-religious building interiors? Also, would that apply to POTY 2023 or only to 2024+? Because, if I understand well, the current script uses the current categories appearing on your gallery link and button 1 has already been pressed, which created many json pages with images already sorted according to actual gallery categories. That would maybe also imply some code editing for Ingenuity. So if it's too complicated to implement it for 2023 I would prefer it being implemented for 2024 to not risk more delay to the contest -- Giles Laurent (talk) 07:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure you would be able to recategorize all images that are not non-religious building interiors? I don't see why not. That would maybe also imply some code editing for Ingenuity. Ingenuity says renaming the categories is simple - just move Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Gallery/<name> and its subpages to Commons:Picture of the Year/2023/Gallery/<new name>, and then update the categories page. we can't create more categories though. as long as no one presses the "initialize contest" button again, the recategorization and renamed categories will remain (hope you don't mind my copy/pasting this from discord). — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites, I agree with both of your proposals mentioned above. Pre-2000 marking as historical sounds good. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 20:12, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Categories have been modified. Commons:Featured pictures/Historical/People now includes sections up 2000. Yann (talk) 14:08, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there are objections, I'm going to start recategorizing tomorrow. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  14:14, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

👍 -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:04, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI the historical categorization is done. Renaming the category produced an unexpected error. Pinged Ingenuity on Discord about it already. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  17:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In going through the newly named "building interiors" and recategorizing the others, there are a lot of judgment calls and overlap. With apologies for the distraction, I think I'm just going to roll back the ones I recategorized so far and move back to "other places" for this year, with the hope that we can come up with a better method for next year. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  10:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - In summary: the "historical portraits" item above has been implemented, and "other places" is unchanged. I think this is simplest, and the categories should be good to go. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  16:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Initialize a new year (by new scripts)
• Fetch and save R1 candidates (automatically by new scripts, when initialized new year)
• Category balance/size statistics (automatically by new scripts, when initialized new year)
• Integrity checks and pics by ratio (automatically by new scripts, when initialized new year)
• Create vote pages (automatically by new scripts, when round 1 start)
• Tally Round 1 results (automatically by new scripts, when round 2 start)
• Tally Round 2 results (automatically by new scripts, when round 2/contest end)
• Voting statistics (clarification needed)
• Send notifications to uploaders (clarification needed)
• MassMessage lists (clarification needed)

@Ingenuity: , could you please clarify that above list of I understand correctly. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZI Jony: that is correct. For the final three items in the list, those are not done by the scripts and would need to be done manually. Ingenuity (talk) 22:42, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ingenuity, thanks for the clarification. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:41, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion: September 15h, avoiding the end the of the year… Thoughs? ★ 17:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts:

• I would have liked 15th of September as well but it's up to the committee to decide the dates as they are the ones that need to be available on the given dates. At least the committee member that will need to press these buttons + Ingenuity (for fixing problems) will need to be available while POTY is running.
• September 15th was already suggested 10 days ago but it was then suggested starting October 1st and then October 1st as official date but with voting already available from September 30th to test if everything works.
• ZI Jony was okay with the last mentionned proposal but we don't know yet if Rhododendrites, AntiCompositeNumber and Ingenuity are okay with these dates.
• There's still tasks that need to be done so September 15th might be a bit too soon maybe? :

- choosing the dates

- doing the category edit

- an administrator on commons needs to fulfill these 3 edit requests as soon as possible 1, 2 and 3 (POTY can't start without it)

- updating commitee page

- updating rules page

- updating help page

- updating the header (eventually)

- sending mass message to inform uploaders on their talk page of the new POTY dates (1 or 2 weeks before contest start probably)

- sending mass message to previous voters on their talk page to inform them that POTY round 1 voting is now open (on official day of opening votes for round 1)

- putting a banner on top of each page to tell everyone that POTY votes for round 1 are open (on official day of opening votes for round 1)

- sending mass message to previous voters on their talk page to inform them that POTY round 2 voting is now open (on official day of opening votes for round 2)

- putting a banner on top of each page to tell everyone that POTY votes for round 2 are open (on official day of opening votes for round 1)

- announcing winners

- sending mass message to previous voters on their talk page to send link to results page

-- Giles Laurent (talk) 18:37, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care 9/15 vs. 10/1. @ZI Jony and AntiCompositeNumber: what do you say? If none of us particularly care, let's err on the side of starting sooner. Over at CentralNotice, there are several other campaigns which overlap these dates, so I don't know that one would be better than the other from that perspective. I can create the CentralNotice request whenever we settle on a date. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  18:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't care about the dates! However, We have to close the issues at hands! @AntiCompositeNumber: , could you please look into the request at MediaWiki talk:POTY-gallery.js, MediaWiki talk:Gadget-EnhancedPOTY.js, and MediaWiki talk:Common.js, also add Ingenuity on the MediaWiki:POTY/committee.json. @Ingenuity: , please add your details at committee page. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:34, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Time is ticking and there's still a few things to do from the to do list before start of round 1. Rhododendrites and ZI Jony are both open to start the contest September 15th or October 1st (with beta starting 24 hours before). @ Ingenuity and AntiCompositeNumber, as remaining two active committee members that have not spoken on this matter, do you agree with the above dates or would you prefer other dates? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites, I believe it is time to create a CentralNotice request. @Ingenuity, are available to start on September 15? Or will start on October 1? Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, since you are the one that will be pressing the buttons and repairing the code if needed, you're the only one that absolutely needs to be present on the chosen dates. If September 15th and October 1st don't work for you, please feel free to suggest other dates, even if it has to be later. Rhododentrites needs to know the dates to be able to do a CentralNotice request and such a request should probably be made enough in advance -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sep 15 and Oct 1 should be fine for me. If we're starting in a week, though, we need to make sure that everything else in the todo is done by then. I still need to fix at least one bug before then (not working on mobile). Ingenuity (talk) 00:43, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If we talk of exact dates, do these ones work for you Ingenuity ? (If not please precise the ones you would prefer)

.

Beta testing (all votes cast will be kept)

from 14 September 2024, 00:00

until 14 September, 23:59:59

.

Round 1 of POTY 2023

from 15 September 2024, 00:00

until 30 September 2024, 23:59:59

.

Round 2 of POTY 2023

from 1 October 2024, 00:00

until 14 October 2024, 23:59:59

.

I think everything is actually on hold because for most things on the todo list it requires to know the exact dates (inform uploaders, because it includes exact dates, request centralnotice for the same reason, inform previous voters (with dates), place banner (with dates)). -- Giles Laurent (talk) 00:51, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If others want to start on 9/15, I'll go along with it, but I think at this point we're cutting it awfully close and my preferred start date is 10/1. That gives time for mass messages and not just submitting a centralnotice (that's the easy part) but getting someone to implement it. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  02:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes time passed too much and it's better to have things done properly instead of rushing things and not having everything ready. Also it would be nice to inform uploads enough in advance so that they can have time to review their file description as suggested in this message -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:38, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ingenuity, would the following precise dates work for you?

(If not please precise the ones you would prefer)

.

Beta testing (all votes cast will be kept)

from 30 September 2024, 00:00

until 30 September, 23:59:59

.

Round 1 of POTY 2023

from 1 October 2024, 00:00

until 14 October 2024, 23:59:59

.

Round 2 of POTY 2023

from 15 October 2024, 00:00

until 28 October 2024, 23:59:59

.

An answer is needed as soon as possible so that Rhododendrites can make the CentralNotice request + inform uploaders -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent: It would be good to have at least another day (maybe two) between round 1 and round 2 just in case there are any bugs to work out. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  12:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From my understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) of the step-by-step guide, the new script doesn't allow to stop votes for a brief period of time between round 1 and round 2. As soon that you stop round 1, round 2 automatically starts, except if Ingenuity changes the script -- Giles Laurent (talk) 13:01, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent: that's fine. I may not be available exactly at 23:59 every day, so it might be off by a couple hours. Ingenuity (talk) 22:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's okay no problem, I was not expecting the hours to be exact as the script may take up to 1 hour to run after pressing the buttons. Rhododendrites, as we now have the exact dates, could you please make the CentralNotice request and inform uploaders? Thank you in advance! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CentralNotices requested. There are two partial conflicts for round 1 on the calendar, but I think they won't be a problem.
As for informing uploaders, that was never formally decided and it's not actually something we've ever done as far as I know (I have no such message in my talk page history, at least). It's clear at FP and POTY that if you have an FP, it will be entered into POTY. We also use the absolute widest advertising possible on-wiki in a CentralNotice. There's something to be said for the few people whose work was nominated by others and might not realize FP-->POTY, but the idea for mass notifications started with a single complaint from a long-term FPC regular who knows that FP-->POTY but wanted a personal invitation. Personally, I don't think it's a great use of time, but it also doesn't hurt if someone feels strongly about it. Point is, it's never been a formal step in the process. There was a useful message Lego sent out along the lines of "hey, you voted in round 1 but haven't voted in round 2 yet" which would be good to do again, but that's something different. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  22:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the CentralNotice requests! According to the calendar there's other requests actually overlaping each other in September so I think too that it will not be a problem.

For the message for uploaders, I know it's the first year this is beeing done but I thought it was approved by Lego after reading this message and especially after Lego moved the message on this page. Also, ZI Jony informed 91 uploaders on May 25th 2024 before reverting these edits which comforted my thought that it was approved.

Personally, I think this message is a nice thing to have. Some uploaders might not have planned to go on commons on October and will therefore miss the banners. Also, if they didn't vote in POTY 2022, they will not recieve this message on their talk page. As I never voted in POTY, I will personally not get that message for example. Recieving the message on the talk page sends an e-mail to the user (by default setting) so he will have less chances to miss it. Moreover, the message for uploaders invites them to review their pictures and verify the descriptions are correct and have been entered in the correct categories. This brings even more added value in my opinion because then the file page of some pictures might be improved. Finally, from my understanding, sending the message for uploaders only requires 1 push of a button by clicking "Send notifications to uploaders" on this page so I don't think it represents much work. Last time it was pressed, 91 uploaders recieved the message and the message distribution was only stopped (not all uploaders recieved it) because of an abuse filter. But the abuse filter issue is now solved.

But of course it's up to the committee to decide and if the committee finally decides to not do it then no problem -- Giles Laurent (talk) 10:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your well notes. Since we Initialized 2023 by new script and we didn't consider POTY admin system, unfortunately that's why "Send notifications to uploaders" did not work on POTY admin! Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 03:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a lot of work to use massmessage, no. I won't get in anyone's way who wants to do this, but I also don't want to be the one spamming people when I think the overwhelming majority of them will already know it's happening. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  03:29, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe It's better to avoid send notifications to uploaders. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 03:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Task	Status	Remarks
Choosing the dates	Done	Beta testing (all votes cast will be kept) from 30 September 2024, 00:00 until 30 September, 23:59:59. Round 1 from 1 October 2024, 00:00 until 14 October 2024, 23:59:59. Round 2 from 15 October 2024, 00:00 until 28 October 2024, 23:59:59
Fulfill interface request	Done	1, 2, and 3
Update committee page	Done	Also json
Update rules page	Half done
Update help page
Update the header	Done	Might be improved!
Inform uploaders	Delist	(Message)
Request CentralNotice	Done	Round 1
Inform previous voters		Round 1 (Message)
Place banners		Round 1
Start round 1
Request CentralNotice	Done	Round 2
Inform previous voters		Round 2
Place banners		Round 2
Start round 2
End contest
Announce winners
Announce result via MMS

• For everyone, please update the TO DO lists accordingly. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 20:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Done Interface requests fulfilled by a Inter-face admin -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Done (but might be improved) I just tried bringing back the header top with this new template that is a copy paste from the 2020 version but without the Share + Control Panel buttons. As I'm very unexpercienced with wikicodes etc I was not able to keep the translations that were done in the past. Also, some edits still have to be done with some links and later on depending on the state. If any errors were made or if anyone just wants to improve the header please feel free to edit it. If the header causes any trouble, feel free to delete it back -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Half done As time is ticking I decided to help a bit by making a first draft edit of the rules page. Basically I just changed the +2 images to +5%, edited a few words and the old dates that stated "Februrary 2024" with a new temporary placeholder dates that are in the future. Feel free to enhance the page with any other needed edit or to revert my edits. One thing I'm not sure about and therefore didn't edit : the voting eligibility. According to this message, eligibility was changed this year to make it simpler. So :

- For eligibility rule number 1 I have a doubt. This message says that now it's "Registered before the start of the year". Does "year" mean the current year or the year that is in the POTY name? (Is it 01.01.2023 or 01.01.2024 for POTY 2023? Historically it has been 01.01.2021 for POTY 2020 for example)

- on eligibility rule number two I guess that this should be deleted : " by the end of the year the contest is being held for. For example, for POTY 2023, you must have reached the edit threshold before 1 January 2024 UTC. An automated tool has been set up to check eligibility.".

- For rule number 3 I'm not sure if it should be deleted or if nothing changed.

@Ingenuity as you edited the eligibility code could you please enlighten me on what applies now? Thank you in advance -- Giles Laurent (talk) 21:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Message for last year voters marked for translation, please translate in your native language. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 12:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support ★ 17:05, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Not sure what this means, but it's too late (from a technical perspective) to add more categories. The small changes above are already in progress. For anyone who has strong feelings on the subject, I nominate you for POTY committee next year. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  17:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Rhododendrites: for example: Commons:Featured pictures/Historical/People (level 1: Historical, level 2: People) ★ 15:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose I guess. Again, we can't reproduce the FP categories. There are too many for the number of pictures we have such that combinations would be necessary (which is what we're already working with). We also can't add new categories at this stage for technical reasons; we can only rename categories and recategorize images. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  15:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please feel free to report anything that might be broken/not working with the scripts. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 11:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity, when I visit the gallery pages and click on "view file" everything works. But when I click on the image itself, I often get errors. On this page for example I get one of the two following errors when clicking on the picture itself: 404 type error and "bad title" error -- Giles Laurent (talk) 12:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Giles Laurent: that should be fixed now. Ingenuity (talk) 13:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  ...or not. It works some of the time, but for some reason it still fails sometimes. I'll check it out later. Ingenuity (talk) 13:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Tested and it works now. Ingenuity (talk) 19:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Amazing, thank you! -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ingenuity according to this screenshot there might be some bugs that have maybe not been corrected since :

- Two images are in first place but one has 2 votes and the other has only 1 vote, so the one with one vote should be in second place and not first place

- The last image on second place has 0 vote while the others have one vote so the image in second place with 0 vote should have been in third place

- According to this page and the new 5% rule there should be minimum 56 finalists for this year while there is only 13 images on this screenshot. Is it because the other finalists are displayed on another page ? (If so, there should be a link at the bottom to show the full score of all finalists like previous years. Example : 2022 winners + all results -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the last point: I checked again the title of the page on your screenshot and it's the 2023/Results/All page and on that page there's normally all finalists (i. e. all pictures that participated in round 2 and their score), so it's supposed to be at least 56 finalists -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On this testwiki page of round 2 voting I only see 9 finalists to vote for while there's supposed to be 56 minimum finalists during round 2 this year so I guess it's a bug? Screenshot available here (click) -- Giles Laurent (talk) 22:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent: thanks for pointing out the error with place numbers, I've fixed the script now. As for the number of finalists, that's not a problem - when testing the script I only voted for a few finalists, but that won't be an issue for the actual contest. Ingenuity (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Ingenuity, when I visit the gallery pages from mobile its just loading! Could you clarify or fix it. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you specify what web browser you are using and if javascript is enabled? Using chrome on my phone everything seems to work on the gallery page. Maybe you have this bug because now "importScript("User:Ingenuity/poty-gallery.js")" should be removed from your common.js page? -- Giles Laurent (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Giles Laurent, I use chrome on my phone, and I've removed script from my common.js page. However, it’s work well in vector skin, maybe problem is in only for MinervaNeue skin! Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 19:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the precisions. After testing it, I found out that the problem doesn't come out of the skin but that it comes out of beeing on commons.m.wikimedia.org instead of commons.wikimedia.org. When I'm on the phone on commons.wikimedia.org using chrome (with "view computer version" selected) the gallery loads no matter the skin I use. But when I'm on commons.m.wikimedia.org, no image load, no matter if it's on computer or phone. As a lot of voters are likely to vote from their phone, it would be nice to have it fixed for commons.m.wikimedia.org. If we don't find any way to fix that then it will be needed to say on the FAQ that it's necessary to use the "view computer version" and to not be on the "m" subdomain -- Giles Laurent (talk) 20:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]