Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/François Bergeron

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. JGHowes ^talk 22:20, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

François Bergeron

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Fails WP:GNG, non notable sound designer Purosinaloense T/K 06:15, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Purosinaloense T/K 06:15, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A notable sound desginer with coverage in WP:RS incuding NYTimes, Entrepreneur, CNN, Le Journal de Montréal, San Antonio Express-News and more. Passes WP:GNG. Namkongville (talk) 06:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can't judge the NYT article, but all other sources are pretty by-the-book passing mentions or, in the case of CNN Money, a short, self-authored promo piece. Not much to write home about, and certainly not enough for GNG. AngryHarpy‍^talk 06:36, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Namkongville: The New York Times source says of him: "sound by Francois Bergeron". That's all it says about him.

Entrepreneur is paywalled, but the part I can see says "The results are breathtaking, but for founders... François Bergeron, 42..." and that's it.

Le Journal de Montreal says "Il a demandé à François Bergeron (un autre Québécois, concepteur sonore du spectacle) de lui trouver un rire de Ginette Reno», raconte le comédien, en riant.", which is a passing mention about someone asking him to find a singer like Ginette Reno. I'll stop there because I am pretty sure you might have overlooked reading these sources.--- Possibly (talk) 06:41, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have voted keep on basis of the New York Times and other supporting sources. If NYTimes refers to him as a sound designer that's pretty convincing to me. Namkongville (talk) 06:57, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Namkongville: I guess you are easily convinced then: it's literally four words in the NY Times. I would suggest reading WP:SIGCOV, the part about how to tell the difference between a trivial source and significant coverage.--- Possibly (talk) 07:32, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Notability is not inherited from the Cirque de Soleil; As demonstrated above, the coverage is largely trivial. --- Possibly (talk) 06:41, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Has designed sound for Walt Disney and notable shows too like Bad Hair Day (film), La Nouba and is being overed as a sound designer in well known sites and newspapers.
I don't think any of this helps establish notability in any meaningful sense. Going through them:
- Passing mention
- Passing mention
- Paywall, can't access
- Mostly quotes, not independent; no byline
- Passing mention
- Passing mention
- Not coverage. Blablubbs|talk 20:46, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per nom, trivial coverage, fails WP:GNG CommanderWaterford (talk) 07:32, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Passes WP:GNG as per above sources and for receiving Sound Designer of the Year award. DmitriRomanovJr (talk) 10:27, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Covered in multiple independent sources passes WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. CeltJungleSnake (talk) 08:16, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - not nearly enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG, simply mentions. Winning a minor "Sound Designer of the Year" award hardly qualifies him. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:15, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep seems to barley passing GNG. RockOften (talk) 12:08, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Whether an article is published in Joe Bumbo's Sound Editing Blog or the NYT, a selection of simple name drops does not constitute meaningful or significant coverage. Likewise, a 1996 award from some magazine with a five-year-old notability tag on its article does not grant anyone a free pass on notability. AngryHarpy‍^talk 12:30, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Has indepth coverage in [1] and his notable roles in [2] and was part of notable shows like Quidam which makes him satisfy WP:MUSIC requirements. Pryorbede (talk) 17:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As sound designer he should be evaluated under WP:MUSICBIO. He meets criterion #10 "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable,..", Possibly if the Cirque Du Solel has toured 2 or more countries, he may meet crierion #4 as well. Webmaster862 (talk) 05:04, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He is not a musician. Bergeron is a sound designer.To meet WP:MUSICBIO, you need to be able to play an instrument of some sort, you know, to make music. --- Possibly (talk) 14:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He has designed and contributed to notable projects like Quidam which should be enough to pass WP:MUSIC. Pryorbede (talk) 17:15, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pryorbede created their account April 7. On April 23 they created this article, 20 minutes after their first edit. --- Possibly (talk) 16:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It took me 2 hours to create this page. I was preparing the wiki code in my sandbox. Possibly, You are an experienced editor with around 60000+ edits. I am not a pro editor like you still learning but I aim to become a pro like you. Pryorbede (talk) 18:39, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - He qualifies for WP:NMUSIC as was the sound designer for notable shows like La Nouba and Quidam. This article could use some cleanup though. Riteboke (talk) 07:15, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Ditto on all the keep reasons above, especially for music category. Star7924 (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per my source analysis above. Him meeting MUSICBIO would a) also have to be demonstrated in reliable sources and b) require that it is established that MUSICBIO covers sound designers, which does not seem to be in the spirit of the guideline; the assertion that some SNG is met is not a substitute for actual coverage, which has not been provided. I will also note in passing that some of the activity surrounding this saga reminds me of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SpareSeiko. --Blablubbs|talk 20:49, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: He meets WP:MUSICBIO, Sound designing is the base of Music. I have created all current pages basis on that criteria. I have read this thoroughly and then after I created the pages. As per WP:MUSICBIO criteria, #10 indicates "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc." Francois created themes and was a sound designer for many notable shows like Quidam. Similarly, I created another article on basis of this guideline for the sound designer Jonathan Deans. As per this criteria he should pass for WP:MUSICBIO. Pryorbede (talk) 03:32, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In addition I can see multiple article created on the basis of same guideline, some examples are Dwarak Warrier, Gregory King (sound designer), John S. Bowen (sound designer) and as well as many others. Which follows same criteria for WP:MUSICBIO. I would request the closing admin that on the basis of WP:MUSICBIO criteria #10 François Bergeron and all other mentioned pages qualifies for WP:MUSIC. Pryorbede (talk) 03:46, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:45, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This claim that sound designers, who aren't musicians, can meet MUSICBIO is quite innovative, but I am not buying it. The spirit of MUSICBIO addresses musicians, not designers of circus sound environments. Also, we do not typically compare other articles in deletion discussions, since they are of varying quality. It's very rare that you get an example that is a good comparison. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.--- Possibly (talk) 04:51, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I got an example that is a good comparison is because there are many sound designer pages which are based on same criteria's and are created by many other experienced editors by following same notability criteria and requirements. As he is a sound designer and basis on his current achievements he should qualify for WP:NMUSIC. I can't keep argue on same thing that sound designer comes under musicians. Because its a waste of time. I am just following Wiki criteria's to create the pages. But here it looks like you are opposing the current criteria's which I guess you should discuss on appropriate discussion area to make updates to the Wikipedia:Notability (music) if it gets approved by admins. As I am a sound designer myself and knows well about sound and music. I can refer to a seperate Wiki page of sound designer which you can also read through this link [3]. This clearly states in the very first paragraph that Sound design is the art and practice of creating sound tracks for a variety of needs. It involves specifying, acquiring or creating auditory elements using audio production techniques and tools. It is employed in a variety of disciplines including filmmaking, television production, video game development, theatre, sound recording and reproduction, live performance, sound art, post-production, radio and musical instrument development. Sound design commonly involves performing (see e.g. foley) and editing of previously composed or recorded audio, such as sound effects and dialogue for the purposes of the medium, but it can also involve creating sounds from scratch through synthesizers. A sound designer is one who practices sound design.

Above clearly mentions in Italic highlighted text about theatre, sound recording and reproduction, live performance, sound art, post-production, radio and musical instrument development. Some of the common things which the subject of this article does. He has made sound for many Theatre shows and live performance shows like Nouvelle Expérience, La Nouba, Zed (Cirque du Soleil), Quidam and many more. On basis of these he should easily pass for Wikipedia:Notability (music). Pryorbede (talk) 07:21, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.