Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User MAGA before European colonization

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: move to User:Buaidh/User MAGA before European colonization. Little bit of IAR on the early close but everyone including the creator are advocating for it. Primefac (talk) 23:41, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:User MAGA before European colonization[edit]

Template:User MAGA before European colonization (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

(Time stamp for bot to properly relist.) J947^{( c ) (m)} 03:14, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Europhobic. KMF (talk) 01:30, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: This is merely an expression of personal belief. Many users believe that the Americas were a better place before 1492. I don't think Wikipedia users need to be censored. Yours aye,  Buaidh  17:42, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, no one here was alive before European colonization of the Americas. Things may have been better, they may have been worse, we will never personally know either way. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 18:37, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• You want to delete this userbox because no one alive remembers 1492. I guess you're OK with the Inquisition then. Your buddy,  Buaidh  02:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Dial the tone down just a little bit. There seems to be a pattern of many userboxes and user categories having been made out of frustration with recent events and politics. I can understand it's not been the easiest time for everyone, but that doesn't make these any more appropriate for Wikipedia. To me, and perhaps OP, a userbox like this is no better than one saying "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN (as we were before Mexican immigration)". That one would get deleted in a heartbeat. We whites who are alive today cannot take responsibility for what our ancestors did; we've all merely been born into a world they helped shape. We cannot change the past, and there's no reason to guilt-trip people for what their ancestors did. We can only be judged as we are here and now, and the closest this userbox comes to being valid is for any of us who agree the brutal suppression that was commonplace at the time was in any way fair or deserved. But no matter how much we disagree with it, we cannot ever hope to change it. Userboxes like these are doing more to divide the Wikipedia userbase than to unite it in the common interest of making an encyclopedia. It certainly seems making an encyclopedia has gotten a lot more personal in the past year or so. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 13:07, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Userboxes are intended to be personal, otherwise there would be no need for userboxes. Would you like all users to homogenous? That sounds racist, or at least anti-ethnicity. White male Euro-Americans are not an endangered group. They bear no guilt for their ancestors, but neither should they hold cultural hegemony over the Americas. Yours aye,  Buaidh  18:47, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Userboxes are intended to help editors understand one another better. Personal, yes, but in the sense of, "If you wonder why I edit the way I do, this might be a clue." Whether any group should "hold cultural hegemony over the Americas" is neither here nor there, and whether I believe they should or not has nothing to do with why I believe this userbox should be deleted. This userbox is a mere statement of sociopolitical belief that imparts nothing, explicit or otherwise, about how the user who has it on his or her page intends to benefit Wikipedia. It's also nonsensical because, as I said before, no one alive today was around before this era of civilization began, so no one can say for certain how it compares to today's society. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 01:16, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete its just racist. Legacypac (talk) 19:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• This userbox template supports the indigenous peoples of the Americas and their ways of life. It does not demean any other group. This template was intended to be a "tongue in cheek" take on the political slogan, but apparently many folks take delight in being "hugely offended" by any little thing. Yours aye,  Buaidh  19:00, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Not to say this is what you said, but if the userbox is merely "a take on [a] political slogan", it has no place here. At best it offers no insight on a user's editing style or what we can expect said user to bring to the table as an editor. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 01:16, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Perhaps an editor could bring a different cultural perspective to the table. I certainly know I can. Yours aye,  Buaidh  05:20, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't really care if this template stays or goes (well, that's not true, I weakly think it should stay because it's marginally clever), but the more important thing I want to point out is that people claiming this box is "europhobic" or "racist" have a fundamental misunderstanding of what bigotry and racism are. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:03, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Amen.  Buaidh  02:24, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Userfy. Not racist, but Indigenous peoples of the Americas pride. Political. Arguably not appropriate for Wikipedia as political, arguably appropriate as an self-introductory for the user, a declaration of interests and biases. SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Userfy per Wikipedia:Userboxes and in accordance with Wikipedia:Userbox migration. Substantially all userboxes expressing political views are supposed to be moved out of templatespace and preferably to userspace. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:48, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Userfy--But, it was an interesting and cunning phrasing on lines of current political scenario.Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 17:46, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Move: With consensus, I intend to move the following 27 userbox templates to the User namespace:

Wikitext	userbox	where used
{{Template:User alternative facts}}	This user believes that alternative facts are damnable lies.	linked pages
{{Template:User alt-right foe}}	This user ardently opposes the alt-right.	linked pages
{{Template:User Anti-fascist}}	This user ardently opposes the rise of neo-fascism.	linked pages
{{Template:User anti-imperial}}		links
{{Template:User Anti-racist}}	This user ardently opposes all forms of RACISM.	linked pages
{{Template:User anti-Trump}}	This user ardently opposes the policies, actions, and behavior of Donald John Trump.	linked pages
{{Template:User Bannon sad}}	This user believes "deconstruction of the administrative state" is a wee pretentious.	linked pages
{{Template:User decent}}	This user wants to MAKE AMERICA DECENT AGAIN.	linked pages
{{Template:User defies Trump}}	This user actively defied the four-year reign of Donald John Trump.	linked pages
{{Template:User democratic}}	This user opposes all forms of OLIGARCHY.	linked pages
{{Template:User endured Trump}}	This user and the United States endured 1461 days under former President Donald John Trump.	linked pages
{{Template:User facts}}	This user believes that facts trump political propaganda.	linked pages
{{Template:User huge mistake}}		links
{{Template:User MAGA before European colonization}}	MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN as we were before European colonization	linked pages
{{Template:User make decent}}	This user wants to MAKE AMERICA DECENT AGAIN	linked pages
{{Template:User opposes Trump}}	This user actively opposed the four-year reign of Donald John Trump.	linked pages
{{Template:User prelegal}}	This user's ancestors were not legal immigrants. They arrived before the Page Act of 1875.	linked pages
{{Template:User republican}}	This user bows to no king!	linked pages
{{Template:User resist}}	This user is a United States WOMAN RESISTER	linked pages
{{Template:User science}}	This user believes that science trumps individual belief.	linked pages
{{Template:User smart}}	This user wants to MAKE AMERICA SMART AGAIN.	linked pages
{{Template:User think}}	This user wants to MAKE AMERICA THINK AGAIN.	linked pages
{{Template:User Trump leaks}}	This user is concerned about Donald Trump's many leaks.	linked pages
{{Template:User Trump sad}}	This user believes that former U.S. President Donald Trump steered the United States onto a dangerous course.	linked pages
{{Template:User under surveillance}}	This user knows that Vladimir is listening.	linked pages
{{Template:User US-RU}}	This user is very concerned about the bromance of Vladimir & Donald	linked pages
{{Template:User white nationalism foe}}	This user ardently opposes all forms of racial nationalism.	linked pages

Yours aye,  Buaidh  20:13, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment for the record, I have moved all the other templates listed above to User:Buaidh's userspace after closing two more MfDs where the same list was produced - Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User US-RU and Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User huge mistake. There seems to be an overall consensus for moving political templates like these out of template space and since he volunteered I don't see any reason to stop him. I have left this one and Template:User under surveillance where they are for now purely because the MfDs have been relisted. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  13:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would like to move this userbox template to the User namespace. Yours aye,  Buaidh  23:01, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.