Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2007/July/3
July 3
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was upmerge, along with 1908
Extremely small, suggest upmerging to parent (keeping the distinct template). Alai 03:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, I dunno, we have stub categories for other years of Olympics. Note that the 1908 stub-cat is empty. Shalom Hello 21:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- ...in which case, they should be upmerged too. Grutness...wha? 00:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Been there, done that, just forgot to speedy the empty cat. FYI, this was well-populated at this stage -- maybe not wisely, but well. IIRC there were a lot of bio-stubs using it (having been bot-sorted from Olympic-stub), which I'm assuming someone has been so good as to clean up. The by-year approach is basically sound, but there are size thresholds (teeny stub types are generally assumed to be as counter-productive to likely expansion as over-large ones). Alai 03:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- If I remember correctly I was the one who moved the bios to olympic-medalist/specific sport and foo-sport where needed. I just forgot to propose the upmerger of the templates and deletion of cats so obviously support upmerger of any templates in the Olympic-stub cats with fewer than the necessary number of articles (50?60). Waacstats 09:06, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Been there, done that, just forgot to speedy the empty cat. FYI, this was well-populated at this stage -- maybe not wisely, but well. IIRC there were a lot of bio-stubs using it (having been bot-sorted from Olympic-stub), which I'm assuming someone has been so good as to clean up. The by-year approach is basically sound, but there are size thresholds (teeny stub types are generally assumed to be as counter-productive to likely expansion as over-large ones). Alai 03:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- ...in which case, they should be upmerged too. Grutness...wha? 00:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was upmerge
A couple of days into the five-day debate about the creation of a template for Ohio historic places - during which support was slowly being gained for an upmerged template - User:Paultyng decided to create both category and template before the discussion was complete. I've no objection to the template, but the category is likely to remain of below-threshold size (hence the reason for the suggestion of upmergal in the first place). Delete this category, and upmerge the template. Grutness...wha? 02:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I've no ideas about likely population, was just covering my bases. Is there likelihood of this being populable in the short term? If upmerged, should ideally be double-upmerged to the Ohio-struct category, and to a new top-level (i.e., all U.S.) Category:National Registered Historic Places building and structure stubs. Alai 02:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The non-stub parent has about 170 articles, but over 1/3 of them aren't within the "buildings and structures" hierarchy so shouldn't get any form of struct-stub (perhaps {{Ohio-NRHP-stub}} would have been a better name?) - things like USS Cod (SS-224), Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden, and Spring Grove Cemetery. Given that a lot of the articles are probably beyond stub size, 60 will likely be a stretch, but not impossible. Grutness...wha? 03:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I argued against <place>-NRHP-stub types, since they cut across the -geo and -struct categories (and more besides, evidently). Upmerger looks like the best bet, without prejudice to recreation if the intimated flood of articles materialises. Alai 03:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- See List of Registered Historic Places in Hamilton County, Ohio for just one county of the list. I was going to stub them this week, there are hundreds. Obviously if there is a list like that for each county, then the state is going to be much larger. pw 13:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- If you have other suggested forms of categorization thats a possibility as well, I was just following the precedent set for Florida already. pw 13:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- As occasionally happens in cases like this, if you can populate it during the course of this deletion process I'll have no hesitation about withdrawing my nom. It was just that the number of existing articles in the parent category looked pretty slim, and there were distinct calls for this to be upmerged when it was proposed. Grutness...wha? 00:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Bear in mind that we'll be keeping the template either way, so there's no loss of sorting/tagging effort, even if the upmerge happens, and gets undone sometime afterwards. Alai 03:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I'm pretty new to this, it didn't really register that I could make fine grained template and always change it later, I think I will probably go with that, fine grained template but using an existing higher level stub, maybe even at the county level, and we can always change it later. Thanks for the help. pw 19:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Bear in mind that we'll be keeping the template either way, so there's no loss of sorting/tagging effort, even if the upmerge happens, and gets undone sometime afterwards. Alai 03:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- As occasionally happens in cases like this, if you can populate it during the course of this deletion process I'll have no hesitation about withdrawing my nom. It was just that the number of existing articles in the parent category looked pretty slim, and there were distinct calls for this to be upmerged when it was proposed. Grutness...wha? 00:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- If you have other suggested forms of categorization thats a possibility as well, I was just following the precedent set for Florida already. pw 13:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- See List of Registered Historic Places in Hamilton County, Ohio for just one county of the list. I was going to stub them this week, there are hundreds. Obviously if there is a list like that for each county, then the state is going to be much larger. pw 13:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I argued against <place>-NRHP-stub types, since they cut across the -geo and -struct categories (and more besides, evidently). Upmerger looks like the best bet, without prejudice to recreation if the intimated flood of articles materialises. Alai 03:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The non-stub parent has about 170 articles, but over 1/3 of them aren't within the "buildings and structures" hierarchy so shouldn't get any form of struct-stub (perhaps {{Ohio-NRHP-stub}} would have been a better name?) - things like USS Cod (SS-224), Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden, and Spring Grove Cemetery. Given that a lot of the articles are probably beyond stub size, 60 will likely be a stretch, but not impossible. Grutness...wha? 03:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was delete both template and category.
Having subnational bio-stubs is bad enough, but when we do have them we certainly don't give them such cumbersome names as this! Add to that the strange capitalisation and the fact that the word "notable" is specifically avoided in Wikipedia - if someone has an article (at least, one that doesn't go to AfD) then they are notable. A {{Massachusetts-bio-stub}} (which this is, under a wildly inapporopriate name) would cause the same problems as other such subnational bio-stubs, due - as always - to the migratory habits of people.
Take one example from the ten or so stubs currently in this category: Bill O'Brien (American football). He's played for Georgia Tech, Maryland Terrapins (wow - great name!), and the Borwn Bears, and coached Duke Blue Devils and New England Patriots... so that would be stubs for Massachusetts, Maryland, Georgia, North Carolina, and Rhode Island bio-stubs, as well as the usual AmFootball-bio-stub.
All this stub is likely to do is cause a proliferation of multistubbing. As such, deletion is the best option. If, however, the consensus is to keep it, it will need drastic renaming. Grutness...wha? 02:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I created this stub while I was looking through newly created Massachusetts articles and saw that some were about past historical figures or important current residents that would fit more under the Bio-stub, but they should also be included under project Massachusetts but really don't have anything to do with the state itself other than living there. This is a bad name for the template and if it is not deleted I will change the name and only put it on current residents and residents who lived there and are no longer living. A good example of this is the article Charles Johnson Maynard who is a notable person, but did not (according to the article) effect the state of Massachusetts. If deletion is necessary and is the better option then please delete it, but if not and its deleted then something can be improved.Yamaka122 13:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Creating an arbitrary cut off for one specific stub type that is different from that commonly used for parent stub types will be enormously confusing (and in this case, you're suggesting different rules for Massachisetts-bio-stub to those for US-bio-stub and other bio-stubs in general). Remember that - although useful to your Wikiproject, this stub type would be used by editors across Wikipedia who won't necessarily know what stipulations you set on it. If you want to designate articles that relate specific ally to a WikiProject, and want to maintain it for your WikiProject's use only, a far better way to go is to create a talk page banner template. That would allow you to keep track of all articles relating to the state, not just stubs. Grutness...wha? 00:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok you're right this stub may help the wikiproject but in the wide-scale it will just cause confusion and multi-stubbing and if every project had one like this some pages would have many stubs, and this project should be no exception. I'm sorry I did not follow the policy and propose the stub/category in Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals and make the name less confusing in the beginning.Yamaka122 15:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.