2024 Presidential Election ~ 6

THE ELECTION TEAMS ARE IN PLACE ~
60 DAYS TO GO

All right!
NYT: Gov. Tim Walz, known for his folksy persona and rural Midwestern roots, has emerged as one of the nation’s most forceful advocates for tackling climate change — enacting ambitious policies in his home state of Minnesota designed to slash fossil fuel use.

Tim Walz Has Championed Climate as Governor
Kamala Harris’s V.P. pick, known for his folksy persona and rural Midwestern roots, has elevated the issue of climate change in his state...
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/06/climate/tim-walz-climate-change.html?smid=tw-...

Trump’s tweet yesterday sounds so desperate and pathetic. I’d like to reproduce it here, but best I can do is copy this screenshot

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-WVg9pswYi/?igsh=MWdwOXJvaTF5OGVvOA==

Found it!

“What are the chances that Crooked Joe Biden, the WORST President in the history of the U.S., whose Presidency was Unconstitutionally STOLEN from him by Kamabla, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama, Crazy Nancy Pelosi, Shifty Adam Schiff, Cryin’ Chuck Schumer, and others on the Lunatic Left, CRASHES the Democrat National Convention and tries to take back the Nomination, beginning with challenging me to another DEBATE,”
“He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by handing over the U.S. Presidency, a COUP, to the people in the World he most hates, and he wants it back, NOW!!!”

>3 2wonderY: he's being wishful.......and it is desperate and pathetic. Perhaps he could help himself by getting out on the campaign trail a bit more though he probably doesn't care for that idea so much anymore. Gets shot--a bit of a surge, Biden leaves and a big drop. It was easy before and now he's got to work and so far he's just singing the blues or a country music woe is me cry a long. He doesn't have a lot of time to get his shit together and he and Mr. Vance don't always seem on the same page.

https://thehill.com/newsletters/technology/4814629-mark-cuban-likes-tim-walz/?tb...
Mark Cuban hails Tim Walz after Harris makes VP pick

“People are tired of the ideologues and hate from both parties. They want to vote for normal people they can relate to. Walz can sit at the kitchen table and make you feel like you have known him forever,” he wrote online Tuesday morning.

***
I'd much rather have Harris and Walz at my kitchen table than two mob-type MAGA dudes.

>5 Molly3028: Me too Molly

>3 2wonderY:

That ramble is really, really unhinged.

>7 librorumamans: Yes, it is weird :-)

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/swing-state-gop-mayor-launches-republicans-for...
Swing-State GOP Mayor Launches ‘Republicans For Harris’ Campaign: ‘Our Party’s Nominee Is Not Qualified For Office’

KICK OFF TODAY

Vice President Kamala Harris received a slew of endorsements from Republicans this week as a new group, “Republicans For Harris,” launched in Arizona.

“One of the biggest reasons I’m voting for Kamala Harris, and I would’ve voted for Joe Biden is that they’re not Donald Trump,” said Mesa Mayor John Giles, an elected Republican, during a presser.

Giles, who runs Arizona’s third largest city, has long been a staunch critic of Trump added:

"And I think the time has come for us as Arizona Republicans to admit the obvious and to start saying the quiet part out loud, which is that our party’s nominee is not qualified for office, and we need to vote for the for the adult in the room. And that is Kamala Harris."

***
The JD pick makes this type of political move even more urgent.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/unearthed-2020-audio-shows-trump-praising-tim-wal...
Unearthed 2020 Audio Shows Trump Praising Tim Walz For Handling Of George Floyd Protests

“He allowed rioters to burn down the streets of Minneapolis,” Sen. JD Vance (R-OH), the Republican candidate for vice president, said on Tuesday. However, audio from a phone call between Trump and a group of governors tells a different story.

“I know Gov. Walz is on the phone, and we spoke, and I fully agree with the way he handled it the last couple of days,” Trump told a group of governors on June 1, 2020, according to a recording obtained by ABC News. He added that Walz was an “excellent guy.”

***
Trump's crap-spewing enablers on TV and radio will not be happy about recordings like this.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/cook-political-shifts-three-key-states-away-fr...
Cook Political Shifts Three Key States Away From Trump As Electoral Map Tightens

Now, with Harris regaining ground in the polls, Cook Political has shifted Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia away from Trump and placed them squarely back in the toss-up column. Notably, Harris can win the White House without winning Pennsylvania if she sweeps those three states and captures Wisconsin and Michigan as well.

Posting this website here and in the gerrymander thread.

Marc Elias leads the fight for the Democratic Party against MAGAs messing with the vote. This is his site:
https://www.democracydocket.com/

You will find regular updates.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/08/09/harris-has-vaulted-past-tru...
Harris Vaults Past Trump As The Bookies’ Favorite To Win Presidential Election

Vice President Kamala Harris has now emerged as the bookmakers’ favorite to win the presidential election, highlighting her campaign’s momentum as she rapidly cut into former President Donald Trump’s lead in the betting markets over the past two weeks.

***
Nixon resigned 50 years ago today! That was when GOP reps still had functioning moral compasses and FOX News didn't exist.

>12 2wonderY: Thanks for the link but it just looks like a posting of news (not that I mind). I don't see anything about leading a fight against this.

MAGA Election Deniers Are Going All-Out to Rig Georgia for Trump
Ari Berman | 9 Aug 2024

The right-wing majority on the state election board passed a new rule this week that could embolden counties not to certify elections if Democrats win...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/08/georgia-election-board-reasonable-i...

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/pence-makes-clear-hes-not-supporting-trump-in-...
Pence Makes Clear He’s Not Supporting Trump in 2024: ‘Cannot Endorse’ the Current GOP Platform

Former Vice President Pence Mike made clear on Friday that he would not be involved in the 2024 presidential campaign and would not support his former boss Donald Trump.

Notably, of all living GOP nominees for president and vice president, only former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is supporting Trump in 2024.

“The fact that we have a platform that removed 50 years of pro-life language, made no mention of the national debt, advocated massive taxes at our borders. And abandoning commitments that we have to allies around the world are deeply troubling to me and deeply disappointing,” Pence said of the current GOP platform.

>12 2wonderY: Uh oh?

FriendlyKozak 🇺🇦 @KvotheTheArcane | 10:15 PM · Aug 9, 2024 {X}:

I’ll make it simple, this isn’t the spending of a candidate who plans to win fairly. If Trump was worried about winning an election with votes WI and MI spending would not be 1/10th of GA.
They will sue and litigate and try to cause such chaos in the hopes of not certifying.*

Trump TV ad reservations by state 9 August 2024 (https://x.com/KvotheTheArcane/status/1822094353004642437/photo/1)
__________________________

* Didn't GA just pass something making it easier for districts to not certify votes? Maybe I posted it in gerrymander thread?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/09/trump-plane-crash-california-00173487
The other Black politician who says he was with Trump in that near-fatal chopper crash

The man who almost crashed in a helicopter with Donald Trump told POLITICO Trump confused him with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown — despite the former president’s repeated insistence it was Brown.

It was Nate Holden, a former city councilman and state senator from Los Angeles, who said in an exclusive interview late Friday that he remembers the near-death experience well. He and others believe it happened sometime in 1990.

***
Kamala ~ and her long-ago boyfriend, Willie Brown ~ are living rent free in Trump's head!

Trump (or his campaign or a friend) owns Jeffrey Epstein's plane, "The Lolita Express"??

Harris | Walz War Room (Text JOIN to 30330) @HarrisWarRoom | 1:01 AM · Aug 12, 2024:

Is anyone going to ask Donald why he was flying on Jeffrey Epstein's plane on Saturday? Photo (https://x.com/HarrisWarRoom/status/1822861043988623621/photo/1)

The N550GP Tail Number had a previous registration under N212JE, note the serial numbers are the same.

N212JE, the same plane, belonged to Jeffrey Epstein, which was purchased by a friend of Donald Trump...

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1822861043988623621.html
https://x.com/HarrisWarRoom/status/1822861043988623621
_________________________________

Conspiracy theory or ???

Denise Wheeler 🌊💙 @denisedwheeler | 8:51 PM · Jun 29, 2024 {X}:
After 426k pages of research, put everything on hold to write the untold historical story of how America really got to space. (No, it wasn't NASA)

Trump had a rally in Virginia Beach yesterday yet his plane was at Dulles, parked next to Russian embassy staff plane...

Photo (https://x.com/denisedwheeler/status/1807215271918076210/photo/1)

Why was his plane at Dulles when his rally was in Virginia?

Trump's plane is a Boeing 757, a massive jet and only so many places you can park a plane that size for non-commercial users. That it's parked with the other 2 huge ones is totally suspect. The odds of Dulles having 3 noncommercial spaces like that almost nil unless prearranged.

Looks like the Russian plane was parked there for 2 days, since the debate. Reminder that because of diplomatic immunity US law enforcement can't board an embassy plane.

A Russian govt plane lands in DC at the same time as the debate & sits there parked for 2 days. If to pick up Russian diplomats then why parked for 2 days? Sounds more like someone important flying under diplomatic immunity since Russian aircraft are banned from US airspace.

The embassy plane is standard. They always pick up diplomats from DC and ferry them to NYC etc.

Trump's plane is a Boeing 757. That's a huge aircraft for personal use & Russian diplomatic aircraft is no little critter either. Add in the Saudi plane & what are the odds they had 3 spaces side by side like that for private aircraft that size? Totally sus.
-------------------------------------------
ETA:
Why Trump flew to campaign events on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane last weekend
Julie K. Brown and Ben Wieder | August 12, 2024

...Trump, enroute on his own private plane to a campaign event in Bozeman, Montana last week, unexpectedly landed in Billings because of mechanical problems, a campaign spokeswoman said. He and part of his staff then flew on a small charter to Bozeman for a rally Friday night. The next day, he switched to another larger Gulfstream with a serial number that matches a plane once owned by Epstein, his former neighbor in Palm Beach, the campaign confirmed...

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article290986070.html#story...
--------------------------------------------
ETA:
The New York Times @nytimes | 5:15 AM · Aug 13, 2024 {X}:

Donald Trump’s presidential campaign said on Monday that it was unaware that a private plane used by Trump for campaign travel on Saturday was once owned by Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced financier and sex offender.

Former President Donald J. Trump had mechanical issues with his main campaign plane on Friday.
From nytimes.com

>19 margd: Politicians these days. People notice shit. Trump has always been pretty oblivious. My guess is someone else bought the plane but who knows with art of the deal Donald.

.....also despite all the denials we also know that Trump and Bill Clinton, Dershowitz and Prince Andrew and a bunch of other assclowns were friends of Epstein and almost certainly committed criminal acts with underage girls.

Listening to Russell Dobular reference Donald Trump as the cocaine bear of Presidential candidates. Pretty true.

UAW has a formidable leader in Shawn Fain. Ask the car companies!

UAW UAW | 10:04 AM · Aug 9, 2024 {X}:
There is only one answer to the threat we face as a nation.
The answer is solidarity.
#StandUpUAW
1:55 (https://x.com/UAW/status/1821910354323963926)

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/just-in-kamala-harris-now-leads-or-is-tied-wit...
JUST IN: Kamala Harris Now Leads or is Tied with Trump in All But One Swing State Per Cook Report

The one state where Trump still holds a slim lead is Nevada, though Harris has narrowed Trump’s margin by six points since May.

Trump doesn't have a lot of rallies planned. I think it's something like one more this month. He's either gotten lazy and/or he doesn't want someone else taking a potshot at him. It's probably both---he's shirking and he's a scaredy cat. There was some thought that the assassination attempt would give him a bump but I never really thought that way and it doesn't look like it has. The public has looked at him for several years now and you either like him or hate him. There really isn't any in between and someone trying to shoot him is not going to change that much if at all. Still he's lost all momentum and he does best when he's in the news cycle all the time---it keeps his supporters all fired up. If he's not constantly in the news cycle they're not going to be as fired up. The rally he's had so far this month was in Montana.....whatever good that's going to do him in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona or Georgia. He's not doing things that could actually help him a little even if his ceiling is just so high. It's been confusion for him and his campaign ever since the Dems kicked Biden to the curb and went all in for Harris and they don't have a lot of time for being confused. Some pundits are saying the race is even now......that might be so as far as raw stats go but if Trump doesn't get the momentum going back his way (and he's actually going to have to work to do that) he's going to lose.

Slut-shaming, of course...

Photos Do Not Show Young Kamala Harris Working as an 'Escort'
Right-wing social media accounts shared images of women in revealing clothes, claiming they showed the vice president.
Nur Ibrahim | Aug. 13, 2024

"False"

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-false-escort-photos/

>24 margd: it's the time when things get really really petty. Harris the slut sleeping her way to the top story. The at least somewhat homophobic Vance in drag. The stolen honor that Walz claims after skipping out of the first Gulf War. Not any of the claims made against any of these people even remotely compare to a whole range of things that Trump has gotten away with over the course of his lifetime.If we're talking about character anyway none of what any of Harris, Vance or Walz have done in the past really amounts to shit compared to Donald. What's important from these people is what they're saying or not saying and what they intend to do or try to do.

>24 margd: Not just slut-shaming, but it's also the old trope of "all Black people look alike". So, extra-charming. I wonder if this will have any effect on Trump's attempts to get Black men on his side?

>26 kiparsky: But she's not black, she's Asian

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-white-working-class-voters-poll-1938946
Donald Trump's Support Among White Working Class Has 'Shrunk Significantly'

The latest New York Times/Siena College poll, conducted between August 5 and August 9, found that in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, more white voters without a college degree, a group that has typically favored Republicans, are backing Vice President Kamala Harris.

According to the poll, Trump's lead among the demographic has been slashed by 13 points since May, when Biden was still the presumptive candidate for the Democratic Party.

>27 jjwilson61: Uh huh. I'm sure that's helping a lot too. I mean, people love being told that some fat white dude is allowed to decide their identity for them. That always goes over well.

Nidia @NidiaCavazosTV | 8:25 PM · Aug 14, 2024 {X}:
Political Campaign Reporter @CBSNews ▪️ Fmr. National Correspondent based in Texas @UniNoticias ▪️ Emmy & Murrow recipient ▪️Texas Ex 🤘🏽 ¡Se habla español!

CBS News confirms RFK Jr. sought a meeting last week with VP Harris to discuss the possibility of serving in her administration, in exchange for an endorsement, according to a source familiar.

“No one has any intention of negotiating with a MAGA-funded fringe candidate who has sought out a job with Donald Trump in exchange for an endorsement.” per source.

First reported by @michaelscherer / @jdawsey1

“Let’s assume our worst nightmare—the Democrats get the White House, the House, the Senate. The first thing they’ll do is get rid of the filibuster, and you’ll have two new states: D.C., Puerto Rico. That’s four new Democratic senators in perpetuity.”

- Mitch McConnell

Via 𝕊𝕦𝕟𝕕𝕒𝕖_𝔾𝕦𝕣𝕝 @SundaeDivine10:05 PM · Aug 13, 2024

Cat-ladies, slut-shaming, postmenopausal women -- Trump Vance don't want women's vote, that's for sure!

Now JD Vance Accused of Dissing All ‘Postmenopausal’ Women
SORRY GRANDMA
Owen Lavine | Aug. 15, 2024

In a newly resurfaced clip, Vance seemingly agreed with podcast host Eric Weinstein that “the whole purpose of the postmenopausal female” is to help raise children...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vance-runs-from-resurfaced-podcast-chat-about-post...

It seems that Donald may be still processing his way through this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-watches-himself-shot-over-010504962.html

What's he 76 years old? Biden and his dementia issues. Trump has shown signs of derangement for a long time. Part of the issue with him is separating it from all the other crazy shit he thinks. Then he gets clipped in the ear. Another inch over and half his head might have gone bouncing down the road. If it happens to you it's something to think about and very likely he is a new case of PTSD together with his already deranged mentality. Putting my amateur psychologist hat on my thinking is he really needs to go away somewhere quiet for a while.....have a weekly get together with a behavioral specialist. But here he is supposed to climb back on the proverbial horse after a bad fall and be a potential target for his next would be assassin if there's someone out there and it wouldn't be a shock if that guy inspired somebody else, would it? In the meantime it almost seems to me as if he's kind of lost interest in running for POTUS.

Undercover interviews with Project 2025 creators, Russell Vought and others:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-sfAnaOzk_/?igsh=MTk2eXV1dWpoY2R5bA==

Phase 2 is ready and closely held.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/ex-obama-campaign-manager-tells-fox-news-what-is-the...
Ex-Obama Campaign Manager Tells Fox News What Is The ‘Sleeper Issue’ That Will Determine This Election

Abortion

“Yeah, Dana, this is the sleeper issue of this election. And it was a sleep received the last election in the 2022 midterm elections. The Democrats performed 9% better than the polls. And when you look at why the huge move towards the Democrats from suburban women, you know, the story of my entire life has been don’t piss women off,” Messina replied, adding:

"And this issue has pissed off a whole lot of women voters, in these battleground states. And now they’re going to get a chance to vote on it. And you see this in poll after poll. I totally agree with you. The economy is the most important issue. But when you go down and look at issues that are moving enthusiasm, it is this abortion issue. And it’s because across party Republicans, Democrats, independents all believe in the same thing. They want the government to stay out of their lives. And this is an issue that is just burning straight hot. And President Trump seems to be trying to run away from his position on this. And I think it’s really hard to do."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-kamal...
Baby Boomers are fleeing Donald Trump and switching allegiance to Harris

Voters over 70 are backing Harris over Trump, 51 to 48 percent, Emerson College poll finds

Generation Z has grown up in a much more brown and racially mixed nation than any other U.S. generation. Their voting patterns are going to be much different from the voting patterns of GOP Christian White Nationalists. Clueless CWN folks continue to fight against the "demography is destiny" theory.

>37 Molly3028: The question also though is how they're going to vote in the coming years. Or even if they're going to vote in great numbers particularly this November. A sign might be coming soon with college campuses opening again and a fairly high possibility that we'll see more protests over the genocide going on in Gaza. Where Trump is pretty clear on standing with the Netanyahu regime......Harris while making sympathetic noises towards the Palestinians and some kind of a peace deal has been pretty vague and the military hardware shipments keep on keeping on. Whereas I think Harris has momentum and might win anyway it's not clear to me at all that she's going to benefit from new voters as much as the Democratic Party might hope if she remains vague. As well I don't think many people can see a future beyond a two party system but there are the makings here of something else. A decade or so ago we were watching the so called Arab Spring. Shit that happens elsewhere can happen here too.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/a-ritz-racist-cracker-whos-about-to-lose-the-mooch...
‘A Ritz Racist Cracker Who’s About to Lose’: The Mooch Lets Loose on Don Lemon’s Live Show During Trump Presser

Don Lemon conducted a livestream of his YouTube show during former President Donald Trump’s press conference on Thursday, and his guest — Anthony Scaramucci — did not have glowing feedback for his former boss.

And Don, it’s at a time when the American electorate has changed dramatically. Just quickly on these stats — 20 million people, 20 million baby boomers have died since the 2016 election, 40 million Generation Z’s have come into the voting rolls at the same time. And so the mixture of who he’s talking to has changed.

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/16/trump-press-conferences-speeches
Trump's new danger: Overexposure

Former President Trump is flirting with a familiar pattern of self-sabotage, betting he can reverse his polling slide with one simple trick: Give the public more Trump.

Why it matters: It's a high-risk head-scratcher for one of the most polarizing candidates in U.S. history, four years after his 2020 re-election bid was derailed in large part by voter exhaustion.

The big picture: Anxious to halt Vice President Kamala Harris' momentum, Trump is flooding the zone with spontaneous press conferences, meandering rally speeches and angry social media outbursts.

***
Harris not doing pressers has allowed Trump to be very Trumpy!

I was amused by an exchange between Walz and Tommy Tuberville. The Globe reports that Walz was in the region and, among other things, made some comments about reclaiming the title of "Coach" from people like Tuberville - saying that part of his role is "to be the anti-Tommy Tuberville, to show that football coaches are not the dumbest people". Apparently, Tuberville's response was to point out that Walz was a liberal and - and this is the funny bit - that Walz had signed legislation making tampons and pads available to people who needed them, tagging him as "#TamponTim".

I'm not sure that Tuberville has a clear idea of who the electorate is, but I'm sure he thinks this was a devastating attack on Walz. Let's hope he keeps his footgun loaded and ready. With enemies like these, who needs friends?

National Black Farmers Group Says Supporting GOP Ticket Is “Off the Table” After JD Vance’s Attack

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/08/black-farmers-jd-vance/
—-
It wasn’t actually an attack, but a gross mis-characterization of a program meant to correct past discrimination.

Veterans of Foreign Wars blasts Trump statement as ‘asinine’

https://thehill.com/homenews/4832324-vfw-donald-trump-medal-honor-statement/

When a candidate to serve as commander-in-chief so brazenly dismisses the valor and reverence symbolized by the Medal of Honor, I question whether they would discharge their responsibilities with the seriousness and discernment necessary,” Lipphardt concluded in his statement.

“It is even more disappointing when these comments come from a man who already served in this noble office and frankly should already know better.”

>43 2wonderY: Very much an example of Trump not understanding military culture.....and he wraps himself around the flag all the time. The society he lives in has always been much different from the society that 99.9% + of the rest of the population live in. Throughout his life he's missed out on all kinds of signifiers simply because they never had to apply to him. This is what it is to be a silver spoon oligarch beyond reproach and as we've seen the past several years also beyond the law. Oligarchs are like royalty which also speaks to when they attain power they don't believe it can be rightfully taken away from them just because of who they are.

Miriam Adelson to my knowledge anyway has literally done nothing of significant positivity in her lifetime. Like her deceased husband she just got richer and richer and has tried to use her wealth to further her right wing ambitions.

As far as presidential awards we'd be better off without them. They're either about trying to ride somebody's wind or a way of sucking up to or sucking off friends. It's also kind of a vestige of European particularly British culture with their OBE's etc. etc. Better off if we just got rid of them and better off if we fought less wars and had less need for handing out military medals to dead and wounded soldiers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jd-vance-poll-vp-p...
JD Vance is now the least popular VP candidate in modern history – even below Sarah Palin

Polling averages show that JD Vance has a -9 net popularity rating, worse than Sarah Palin’s low in 2008

>43 2wonderY: Notice that in all of that Trump tries to defend himself by trying to link Harris to the US exit from Afghanistan - which, if you recall, was a mess that Trump left for Biden to step in.

>41 kiparsky: Tuberville is very much a mediocrity but it's like with MTG they're very reflective of the places they come from and what Tuberville said here will carry weight in dark red state Alabama and would in a good part of the South (and some other states as well) even if he is out of step with most Americans. Walz has a nationwide demographic that he needs to connect with now and that's quite a different thing but as far as Alabama goes Tuberville (or someone with more or less the same shtick) will be voted back in again and again in the future. I'm pretty sure that his 'Tampon Tim' did connect with his electorate and if only for that reason it's not as dumb as some would make out. He's scoring points with his base.

Trump Is Setting the Stage to Challenge the Election
Charles Sykes | 12 Aug 2024

... A defeated Trump could be even more dangerous this year than he was in 2020, because the personal stakes for him are higher than ever: Trump is already a convicted felon, but if he wins, he can make many of the remaining criminal cases against him go away. If he loses, he faces not only personal humiliation but also a potential legal nightmare. This makes Trump a desperate man—and that desperation could drive his actions even after the final votes are cast.

...In the 2020 race, Trump used the lie that the election had been stolen to incite a violent attack on the nation’s Capitol; now he and his allies have the added advantage of an infrastructure for sowing chaos the next time around. One of Trump’s campaign managers, Chris LaCivita, has already made it clear that Trump may fight the outcome of the election long after November 5. “It’s not over until he puts his hand on the Bible and takes the oath,” LaCivita said in a recent interview with Politico at the Republican National Convention. “It’s not over on Election Day, it’s over on Inauguration Day.” An investigation by Rolling Stone last month found that nearly 70 pro-Trump election deniers serve as election officials in key battleground counties.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2024/08/trump-rally-crowd-challe...

>48 margd: At this point I'm not convinced that all the criminal trials and tribulations that have come Trump's way aren't mainly for the purpose of harassment. If it were almost anyone else they'd already be sitting in prison two or three times. I suspect there's no real intention of locking him away. Even if convicted they're going to allow him to remain free to appeal away for the next couple decades if he lasts that long and/or cite his past as POTUS and billionaire status and his advancing age as being reasons to show mercy and not to throw his sorry ass in the slammer. Partly because of fear that his millions of followers will stage a for real uprising.....partly because the letter of the law isn't meant to apply to elites like him and elites run everything really. Something that could happen to him could happen to them and they'd rather he were dead than even raise that kind of a specter. Our criminal justice system proves over and over again it is multi-tiered.

>47 lriley: I agree that Tuberville's comments will help Tuberville with his base, and that's why he's sort of reflexively driven to say that sort of thing. However, they're also extremely helpful in distinguishing Walz - and by extension, Harris - from the Tuberville base, and that's a huge help for the Harris/Walz campaign.

>49 lriley: It seems to me that in order to argue that trying Trump for his crimes amounts to harassment you'd have to argue that the charges are either invalid or that they're over acts that would not be charged if committed by a different defendant. Alternatively, you could claim that yes, the charges are valid and that another defendant would be similarly charged for similar acts, but that there's a clear and obvious reason why Trump in particular is exceptional and should not be charged.

Are you making any of those claims? If so, which?

>49 lriley: Would be interesting to follow Kamala Harris deliberations on Trump pardon if she becomes president. The AG in her would want to throw away the key, as would the desire to shut.him.up! Might be fun though to watch him have to admit guilt to accept a pardon, especially from a woman of color! Not one more person should die because of Trump, so a President Harris would want to ruminate a few minutes on pros and cons of a pardon. Might have to wait for Harris's post-presidential book for all the juicy details, I should live so long! ;)

>52 margd: It's not clear to me that Trump understands that accepting a pardon requires acceptance of guilt. One of the advantages of his abjectly imbecilic nature, I suppose.

>50 kiparsky: Both have their own ends in this. They're kind of helping each other out if only a very little.

>51 kiparsky: I'd say that the Justice Dept. is pretty much always in lockstep with whatever administration is in power. That goes with the program. I think all the crimes against Trump are legit but there's also a very strong political component involved. There were reasons that Nixon got off easy. There were also reasons why no one ever went after anyone for Iran/Contra or allegations against Bill Clinton got downgraded just simply to sexual shit. Even a lot of behind the scenes shit to get Jeffrey Epstein off the hook because he could hurt people.

I see punches being pulled when push comes to shove on Trump. If he loses in November whatever federal charges go away similar to Nixon goes off into a kind of a limbo of disgrace. He doesn't go to prison though. It will play out very quietly. Anyway Trump has proven to be an exception to the law over and over. And as far as Kamala Harris as long as he's out of the picture she's not really going to give two shits but still she'd rather not have her name attached to whatever happens to him. The Georgia prosecution is the only one she can't touch. Only the Georgia Governor and the current one though a Republican is seriously on the outs with Donald.

>52 margd: I don't think he admits anything though---he'll keep throwing money and lawyers for years and years rather than admit to anything. That's what narcissists usually do.

The GOP is going to remain a very corrupt cult which is led by an extremely flawed dude until it experiences a Gaza-type razing!

>52 margd: If Harris pardons Trump it would be the end of her political career. Nixon's pardon contributed to Trump's feeling that a president is above the law and who knows what pardoning Trump would lead to

>57 Molly3028:

I don't know what you mean by a "Gaza-type razing". Are you calling for genocide? Your choice of words could be interpreted as inciting hatred and violence.

FWIW the best case scenario IMO is for the current Israeli govt. to fall similar to how the Botha South African govt. fell. The race hatred and bigotry towards Palestinian Muslims and Christians has been for some time institutionalized. It's not going away for generations to come but it can't be allowed to continue as state policy any further for the good of not only those living on that land today but also for the population of the region and the rest of the world as well. Israeli's teach their children in their schools (and it's not really a secret) that Israel is their land by birthright and it's why for too many of them murdering Muslims in mass numbers in Gaza is not really a problem nor is killing Palestinians in the West Bank and/or driving them off their land when they think that they have God given right to it. It's the ethnostate that the settlers have put all their hopes and beliefs in....

I don't think really that there is a permanent negotiated settlement with the current regime to be had here. Any kind of settlement for them will only ever be temporary and one way or another they're going to continue (even when they admit illegality as they have before) to put more and more settlements into the West Bank and push more and more Palestinians out. They're not really interested in a one or two state solution. They really only want the entire land surface of the country for Jewish people only......and to get there peace only happens when there is no more Palestinian Muslims and Christians and these ideas go deep into the desires of what the majority of Israelis want and believe not just Netanyahu or his govt. or the Knesset. Those they have put into power and what they've been doing to Palestinians is what the majority of their population actually want.

>59 John5918:

You always appear to purposely misinterpret statements I post. Raze ~ completely destroy (a building, town, or other site) ~ refers to the destruction of almost all STRUCTURES on that land mass.

>61 Molly3028:

And you wish to raze all the structures in the USA, as has been done "Gaza-type"? If I have misinterpreted your language, may I respectfully suggest that it's because you are using extremely ambiguous and potentially hateful and violent language.

>62 John5918:

YIKKKES

You don't respect anyone but yourself and the words that come from your troubled mind-set!

>63 Molly3028:

Razing almost all the structures in a particular land mass to the ground "Gaza-type" has been accompanied in Gaza by genocide, and in my experience it is usually accompanied if not by genocide, at least by heavy civilian casualties, wherever it has occurred. It is not my troubled mindset that caused you to choose to use the words "Gaza-type". But yes, my mind is troubled by the amount of hateful and violent language that I see on both sides in the US election, and elsewhere, including the recent elections in my own nation, UK, and my adopted land, Kenya.

>55 lriley: I'd say that the Justice Dept. is pretty much always in lockstep with whatever administration is in power.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. The Attorney General is of course appointed by the administration, and will often be in some sort of general agreement, but the department as an entity is not turned over when the administration changes. So high-level policy statements will usually be in alignment with the administration, but day-to-day decisions are made by long-term department employees. Overruling these employees is a big step and not one that an AG will take lightly, in general.

In every hierarchical structure lives the dream of total top-down power, but that is never the reality, and successful leaders are those who have learned that that dream is really not one that you'd like to live in. I'm going to suggest that most people who get to the AG chair have at least had some success in leading people, and will have learned a few lessons. Notably, that micromanagement is not effective leadership, and that people with experience are worth listening to.

But that's a bit beside the point.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that (a) the charges are justified but that (b) historically presidents tend to get away with it because (c) it's usually easier to let them get away with it. So historically speaking, since presidents have always got away with it, Trump should get away with it.

I take a different point of view. I think that Trump deserves a fair trial because if he happens to be innocent, I think he should be publicly exonerated. And of course, if he's guilty, he should be publicly found guilty and held responsible. Giving him that opportunity to have his name cleared publicly is not harassment, in my view. It's his right.

>63 Molly3028: Sorry, he's right. At the very best, that comment was in horrible taste.

>66 davidgn: I'll second that.

>64 John5918: In my experience, it's difficult even for people of good will to free their speech of violence, particularly under the conditions of violence, both actual and rhetorical, which, as you rightly point out, surround all of us. (I have struggled with this myself, and not always successfully)

Perhaps there's room for some compassion for a person who falls into the trap of that violence of word? Based on past contributions here, I'm pretty sure that >57 Molly3028: was not literally calling for genocidal violence against their political opponents.

>68 kiparsky:

Of course. There's always room for compassion, and I hope my response was compassionate. I always try to challenge an action rather than attack a person. As you say, it is difficult, and my apologies when I fall short of that aim.

I don't know Molly3028 so I have no idea whether or not they are a violent person, but I like to hope they are not, and that they are just using violent language carelessly and thoughtlessly which, as you say, is all too easy for any of us to do.

But the reality is that violent language is a precursor to violent actions; not necessarily on the part of the speaker, but it encourages and in a way legitimises the violent actions of extremists, disturbed people and others who do then resort to violence. I'm sure not all the Trump supporters who ranted about a stolen election wanted or expected violence on 6th January 2020, nor that every anti-Trumpist wanted him to be assassinated earlier this month. Not all the British racists who rant about immigration wanted violent riots a couple of weeks ago. Not all those who used violent language in Rwanda, Darfur, or indeed Israel, wanted genocide. But the violent and hateful language, however thoughtless or "innocent" its intention, is nevertheless a significant factor in the ensuing violence. While you're right that this might be viewed by many as a now-normalised part of life, I believe that people of good will at least need to challenge it and try not to get sucked in to it.

>69 John5918: I certainly didn't get the sense that any personal attack was intended, but I did feel that it was perhaps a rare example of unskillful language from you. Specifically, I feel that by intentionally conflating a violent figure of speech with an incitement to literal violence, you might have committed an act of verbal shorthand that failed to communicate what you hoped to get across, which I think you do much more effectively in your last paragraph above.

Rhetorical nonviolence is hard!

Jerrad Christian For Congress 2024 @JerradChristian |
Running for US Congress (D) - OH12
Aug 19 • 11 tweets • 4 min read • https://x.com/JerradChristian/status/1825541063614083345
Read on X https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1825541063614083345.html

After Trump told Elon that “nuclear warming” is a bigger threat than global warming, I asked my team to dig up Trump’s past comments on nuclear war. I was NOT prepared for what they found.

I’m convinced Donald Trump is a pathetic psychopath… Thread. 🧵 /1 ...

>70 kiparsky:

Thanks. That helpful feedback is much appreciated. As you say, finding the right words can be hard.

>57 Molly3028:

One can wind up a political party, dissolve it, disband it, or even outlaw it. What one can't actually do is raze it. As such your metaphor is, in the first place, ill-chosen, and your including in it a reference to the war in Gaza invites your reader to infer that you propose armed violence against the Republican Party which, since it is nothing except its members, means armed violence against Republicans. I doubt that that is what you meant, but that is what you conveyed.

>73 librorumamans: Metaphorically, one can "raze" a social construct, just as one can "tear it down" or "demolish it". One can also "build up" or "construct" an organization. We can also, of course, "steer" a political party, we can direct it, motivate it, energize it, fire it up, etc, etc. The metaphor is perfectly legitimate usage. I agree that it was ill-chosen, but again, I don't know if it's a great idea to "pile on" (which we're not actually doing, speaking of metaphor) here. Scolding people doesn't usually do a lot to change their behavior, I've found, and I suspect that the message has kind of got across.

>74 kiparsky:

I don't think it's about scolding. I think it's about challenging language and behaviour which may have become or be becoming normalised in society, and putting on record that not all of us accept it as such. And while not wishing to labour a point which, as you say, has probably been well made by now, I think using the term "Gaza-type" to qualify the word "raze" is what made it particularly questionable and challengeable and leads to the interpretation which >73 librorumamans: infers.

They had the American parents of a hostage speaking to the crowd from the podium last night and FWIW they asked for a total ceasefire. That's great but apparently the DNC has been in talks to get a pro-Palestine speaker and I guess that's going to be a no and it always seem to leverage that way doesn't it? The Democrats want/need the votes of the 'Uncommitted' but don't want to commit anything to them.

One might even ask what do the Israelis need any more bombs for. Practically the entirety of the Gaza Strip as margd's post recently showed has been reduced to rubble. The people are hungry....the Israelis say they don't deserve to eat. They're thirsty and the Israelis say they don't deserve to drink. All that has been going on for months. Diseases like polio, cholera, smallpox, dysentery have been popping up here and there. If the survivors (seems more appropriate at this point to call them that than to simply refer to them as people) in Gaza aren't lucky enough to have a tent they have a sky for a roof and their schools, universities and hospitals are destroyed. Even their cemeteries have been torn up. Once in a while handwringing from the Biden administration to Netanyahu's terror regime---'don't be so mean'....'watch out Israel you might kill some kids' but still we send them more military hardware just recently another $20 billion. So what do they need all this shit for?

What do they need all this shit for?

Hardliners violently expel Palestinians to expand Israeli settlements in West Bank
PBS | Aug 21, 2024

(10:18) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hardliners-violently-expel-palestinians-to-exp...

>77 margd: it's that and turning the rubble in Gaza into even finer rubble + maybe a regional war that maybe we'll get into the middle of. It's also our military industrial complex and it's rabid thirst for sales and profit and the beholdeness of so many of our politicians on all the lobbyists campaign donations involved from any number of actors along with the whipping up of evangelical rapture happy christians and war happy conservatives and holy land seekers of every stripe. Our involvement though is only making things exponentially more and more and more worse than it already was.

>77 margd: I suspect that we're crossing two threads here, but this is what we're going to see as long as well-meaning people pretend that the war in Gaza is between Palestinians and Israelis.
People who care about this need to get this straight: The settlers are working for Hamas. They are there to keep Hamas in power, just as Hamas is there to keep Netanyahu in power. The longer it takes for this to sink in, the worse things will be for Palestinians - and, to a much lesser extent, for Israeli civilians who are also living under the guns.

And to bring this back around to American politics, we have a serious problem on this issue. The problem is that many progressives who want peace in Gaza have fallen into the Hamas/IDF trap of accepting that this is a conflict between these two organizations, when the two are fundamentally symbiotic, and supporting one is supporting the other. This can only weaken the Democratic party, it can't possibly bring peace. What does it take to get progressives to reject this position and support peace in Israel?

>79 kiparsky: Not sure exactly what you're trying to suggest but this ongoing genocide would not be happening without the support of the Biden administration and much of the US Congress of both major parties. The IDF would have run out of bombs and other military hardware to keep up the destruction months and months ago if not for our resupplying them over and over again. This genocide would not be happening without us. The Israeli state just does not have the logistical means to carry out what they're doing on their own. It's a nation of 15 million souls----half of whom are of the Jewish persuasion and the other half Palestinian. They just don't have the manufacturing capacity to carry out the kind of destruction that it has in Gaza (a very small area) which to this point is equivalent to 5/6 Hiroshima atom bombs worth of ordinance. It's well beyond their own means and can only have happened with help from somewhere else. So if you're thinking to deflect blame away from the United States on this I'm sorry but most of the world sees the United States complicity and through it's hypocrisy and see it differently than you do which is why the almost universal support for the ICJ and ICC charges of genocide. If there's a history to look back on in 20/30 years the United States and yourself are going to be on the wrong side of it.

Photo, Kamala Harris and great-niece Amara
https://x.com/stridinstrider/status/1826835923679494176/photo/1

This photo will be in museums.
(credit Todd Heisler // NYT)

--Chris Strider @stridinstrider | 12:16 AM · Aug 23, 2024 {X}:
Emmy-Nominated Editor & Animator / Supervising Video Editor @prioritiesUSA / Fmr @JoeBiden Senior Video Editor / Fmr BidenInaugural Editorial Video Dir.

>80 lriley: this ongoing genocide would not be happening without the support of the Biden administration and much of the US Congress of both major parties

I think you're mistaken about the availability of military hardware. There's no shortage of suppliers.

Be that as it may, the question is, what are the pro-Palestine progressives trying to accomplish? It's not clear to me, but literally the only difference they can make with their current approach is to assist the election of Republican candidates, including Trump. To put it even more bluntly, the current approach cannot and will not make a scrap of difference to any Palestinian. What I'm asserting - not suggesting - is that it is necessary for people who want to make a difference for Palestinians to become aware of the realities of the politics of the conflict in Israel. Until they start grappling with the realities of the situation, there is no positive contribution that they can make. Which is unfortunate, because many of them want to make a positive contribution, and believe that they are doing so.

The first reality that needs to be grappled with, as I've said before, is that the conflict is not between Israelis and Palestinians. If pro-Palestinian activists were to get their heads around that, you'd know it when they started cracking down on anti-Semitic and triggering slogans, and started making common cause with peace-seeking Israelis and American Jews. At the moment, they are allowing messaging that defeats their aims, and only aids those white Supremacists who also believe that Jews are the ultimate enemy. Not a good look, and a big reason for their utter failure to accomplish anything at all in the last ten months of strenuous agitation.

The second reality that they need to get their heads around is that political change is a long game. Marches and demonstrations are sometimes a useful tactic, but without a coherent goal and a strategy for reaching that goal they are at best irrelevant and at worst counterproductive. In this case, we're very much in the worst-case scenario, as the anti-Semitic rhetoric which the pro-Palestinian movement has allowed to permeate its messaging has made it difficult if not impossible for any Democratic politician to align themselves with them. That's just basically stupid politics. Again, ask yourself why nothing at all has been accomplished by the pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the last ten months of strenuous and useless exertions.

I would recommend taking a look at Thomas Ricks' recent history of the American civil rights movement if you want to see what goes into a successful campaign for change. What you'll see is essentially the antithesis of the failed pro-Palestinian movement.

And for what it's worth, I agree that what the IDF and Hamas are doing in Israel is utterly evil, you don't need to convince me of that. I want their war on Israel to end, and that's exactly why I'm so critical of those who are working - perhaps unintentionally - to ensure that it continues.

>82 kiparsky: "The first reality that needs to be grappled with, as I've said before, is that the conflict is not between Israelis and Palestinians."

The American Civil War was also about states' rights.

Your analysis might have been clever 10 years ago. This is a genocide, a campaign of extermination and expulsion. It is taking place amidst a sea change in Israeli society and an ongoing putsch against what remains of its liberal and (Herrenvolk) democratic character. Ironically, at this point, it appears the IDF brass would like to stop this. But they are no longer running the show.

Before lecturing us on the politics of the conflict, you might take note of the recent dire warnings from the likes of (former Israeli Defense Minister and IDF Chief of Staff) Moshe Ya'alon, (former Israeli general and Prime Minister) Ehud Barak, and (current head of Israel's internal security service Shin Bet) Ronen Bar about the imminent collapse of Israel into something recognizable to them, as I have collected here:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/362434#8605735

>83 davidgn: About 30 minutes into a Anti-Empire Project video a couple days ago now the host and Jon Elmer (electronic intifada) were discussing a Haaretz (Israel's version of the NYTimes) article quoting a former Israeli IDF general Itzhak Brik who told that paper pretty much that Israel had at best a year more of what they're doing now before their economy collapsed. It's not sustainable and seeing that Israel's air striking Southern Lebanon now and that Hezbollah in retaliation has launched a bunch of missiles into Israel it looks like that is ready to set off in earnest.

So to reiterate again---the Israelis some 10 or so months ago evacuated somewhere around 40 towns in Northern Israel---the residents now living in hotels and motels all over greater Israel ever since which is being paid for by the state. Just think a permanent vacation and depending on pot luck maybe in some fleabag motel room.....your kids and all....maybe parents and grandparents all crowded together or some separated all over the entire country and maybe your pets or not and no idea when the vacation will be over. But you still have to pay for food and fuel (not from Turkey anymore and way more expensive), entertainment and cell phone service and that whether you still have a job (paycheck) or not. Apparently the Druze weren't included in this beneficence but it's okay as far as the hotel/motel owners because they're not pushing tourists out because tourism (a very big deal in Israel's economy) has flatlined since the genocide has started. As well we should mention that thousands of Israelis have taken advantage of their dual citizenships by leaving the country in the meantime. Thousands and thousands of businesses also in the meantime have gone bankrupt and a main reason is the IDF has become very much an army of reservists and those reservists use to be workers wherever but now instead are committing massacres in Gaza and/or helping right wing settlers relocate Palestinians out of their homes in the West Bank. No end in sight for them either. Intel which was all set to build a multibillion $ facility also decided not to....no longer seeing good reason for their bottom line which speaks to other investors. But also the Houthis have pretty much stopped all shipping to Israel through the Strait of Hormuz which puts another huge crimp in Israel's economy meanwhile any number of nations have stopped trade with Israel altogether. They no longer get oil from Turkey their primary source for oil before nor are they getting coal from Colombia their primary go to for their energy grid. What the Biden Administration refuses to see most the rest of the world does see. Last we should mention that Israel is losing soldiers killed or wounded/injured and the wounded/injured have been filling up their hospitals. The numbers they've admitted don't tally yet but the numbers on the other side amongst the Palestinians don't either. Dead and wounded/injured are both much much higher than what we see from our press. Israel doesn't let foreign journalists into Gaza and they've been targeting and murdering the Palestinian press inside Gaza since the beginning and controlling what information does get out.

I might add that I don't think the United States has been doing the state or the people of Israel any favors by sending them all the weapons and the support we have. We're helping to turn them into a pariah state and yes not just Biden (and quite possibly the Harris administration) but Trump will at least do the same and possibly even more for Netanyahu. It's wrecking our global reputation as well and there could be costs to us because of it. In a recent post about Venezuela sanctions I found out that the United States currently has sanctions against a lot of countries for this, that and the next thing---something around 100 countries.....things we never review because there's no real process to trigger reviews and our house and Senate leaders forget about so these go on into perpetuity. I speak of this because we are no longer the economic powerhouse that we use to be......we're in the process of being replaced as No. 1 by China and yeah we still have much more military firepower than anyone else but we've also seen how far that goes in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Our real power is in our currency being the go to currency of the world but if that changes and it could come because of a variety of factors---our economy being bypassed by the Chinese economy for instance or our go it alone we don't give a shit what anyone thinks foreign policy by one successive presidential administration after the other (think of Bush II's War on Terror, a respite from at least some of the belligerence in the Obama years, to Trump and now to this catastrophic support of Israel's genocide by Biden) leading to our worldwide reputation being wrecked and a plurality of nations deciding to look to another country's currency to be the new go to currency. Our recent belligerence towards the Chinese speaks to our fears about this IMO.

>83 davidgn: The Israeli Defense Minister isn't part of the IDF/Hamas axis?
Interesting. Go on, tell us more. What other parts of the IDF state are not part of the IDF state? I find your views fascinating.

>84 lriley: >85 lriley:

I find your posts informative, but may request some paragraphing, please?

>86 kiparsky: Might I suggest that the status of Israel as "the IDF State" is in doubt if the IDF staff cannot even defend its own bases against the far right or prosecute the settler mobs who have attacked them in defense of the right of the other ranks to rape their prisoners? https://www.timesofisrael.com/bordering-on-anarchy-idf-chief-sounds-alarm-after-...
The Shin Bet chief is openly warning that the center cannot hold. The likes of Smotrich and (particularly) Ben Gvir increasingly seem to be holding the rest of the state hostage, and they hold quite a lot of the cards. Netanyahu seems to be riding the tiger.

>88 davidgn: I've said many times that Israel is a failed state - variously defined, but the Wikipedia definition is a reasonable one:

a state that has lost its ability to fulfill fundamental security and development functions, lacking effective control over its territory and borders.

It sounds very much like you're agreeing with this, so I'm going to count that as a small bit of progress. It seems an uncontroversial claim, really. Surely any state which includes a rival government claiming to rule a portion of that state qualifies by that definition, and surely the government of Israel lacks effective control over its territory and borders, and arguably it has only tenuous control over its military. (that last claim stands or falls on some pretty fussy definitions, but it's certainly the case that there is no clear line of control from democratically-elected Israeli government to the actions of the Israeli military)

So let's take a moment to celebrate that little bit of consensus before we move on to the next step, which is the claim that the IDF (along with Netanyahu and his clique) and Hamas are not at war with each other in any serious way, but are rather symbiotic organizations, each relying on the other to justify their claims on what power they are able to claim.

>89 kiparsky: Again, kiparsky, I think that symbiotic characterization is a clever one, and might have been quite defensible not too long ago, but it is now very much out of date. The dynamic has shifted, and you don't seem to have followed.

Things Have Changed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUK8ZQD5GYo

>90 davidgn: I'm very interested to know how a Hamas that literally launched an attack in order to give their buddies in the IDF cover to attack Gaza is not symbiotic with the IDF that they're working directly hand-in-hand with. That'll be fascinating, and I look forward to seeing how you support your claim.

Yours with bated breath
-jpk

>91 kiparsky: I'd be interested to know whether anyone else accepts your premise at all in this case.

>92 davidgn:

I'm afraid I lost the drift of this conversation a good few posts ago.

>93 John5918: I think this, in a nutshell, is what kiparsky is going on about:

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown...

But I'm afraid this dynamic no longer applies. There will be no more return to the status quo. Hamas have outlived their usefulness to Likud and the even-further-right as a partner in avoiding a two-state solution. I also reject the notion that the Hamas (and other groups') attack of October 6 was somehow aimed at reinforcing the status quo.

Anyhow, best we move this whole thing to the Israel thread.

>92 davidgn: Well, so far most people that I talk to seem to have no problem with the idea that (a) the Israeli government, and Netanyahu in particular, is well aware that without this war it will no longer be in power and Netanyahu will be on trial and that (b) Hamas explicitly stated that their goal in the massacre of 10/7 was to provoke an Israeli assault on Gaza. I mean, both have been pretty widely reported, if you know anyone who reads a newspaper you might ask them about it. It's not exactly a huge leap for most people to understand that both Hamas and the IDF (including its political wing) have a shared interest in maintaining an ongoing conflict, since both of them lose pretty much everything they care about as soon as it stops.

So, yeah, apart from a few kool-aid drinkers who think Hamas is the bees knees and that all Israelis have some sort of psychotic desire to kill Palestinians (they don't, in case you were wondering), most normal people find this a pretty plausible analysis of the situation, and certainly better than the official story ("Palestinians|Israelis are just crazy and want to kill Israelis|Palestinians, who are just trying to defend themselves." People who follow the news are at least aware that that is utter nonsense.

I'm not entirely sure what you believe is going on here, but it seems that you're pretty comfortable with the official line. Is that about right?

>93 John5918: "Drift" is a good word. The usual rhetorical floppiness, which makes it a bit difficult to follow. If you can manage to figure out what yer man David wants to think about any of this, you'll be doing better than I've done.

>94 davidgn: If you're really not following, you could try asking a question rather than assuming that I get my opinions from op-eds and blogs.

My usual method is to read a few newspapers and figure out what I think based on the reporting.

As for your op-ed, yes, I'm aware that Israel has dithered about with trying to fund various Palestinian organizations over the years, but that's actually nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What's going on is symbiosis, not collaboration. See previous post.

I also reject the notion that the Hamas (and other groups') attack of October 6 was somehow aimed at reinforcing the status quo.

You might reject the idea that the 10/7 massacre that Hamas committed was aimed at provoking an Israeli response very much like the one that we've seen. That's your privilege, I suppose.

However, Hamas doesn't reject that idea at all, as you'd know if you'd read any of the reporting at the time.

>97 kiparsky: What I don't understand (among many other things) about your position is what makes you view the dynamic here as "symbiotic." That implies positive or desired outcomes for both parties, does it not? Maybe you could answer in the Israel thread.

>98 davidgn: reply here

What Do We Know About Kamala Harris' Medical History?
Shannon Firth | August 26, 2024

— Almost nothing, and presidential nominees have no obligation to divulge personal health details ...

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/features/111664
-----------------------------------

margd -- and most anything we think we know about Trump's medical history / health is incomplete or an outright lie?

The Harris Effect - in the 13 states that have updated voter files since July 21st, we are seeing incredible surges in voter registration relative to the same time period in 2024, driven by women, voters of color, and young voters.

Bar graph, % increase in registration by group, July 2020 - July 2024 (https://x.com/tbonier/status/1828457890228629534/photo/1)

- Tom Bonier @tbonier | 1:41 AM · Aug 27, 2024
CEO @thetara_group, Sr Advisor @TargetSmart, former @HowardU, @claritycampaign, @ncec1948, @SEIULocal500

Can We Count on the Court If Democracy Is at Stake?
Paul Smith | August 28, 2024, 9:00 AM

No, the Court has proved over the years—and especially over the past year—that we can’t.

...there is little reason for confidence that democracy and the rule of law will be respected this coming December if the Court is asked to rule in a manner that could affect who is inaugurated in January. The Court has forfeited any presumption of good faith at this point. The immunity decision is that bad.

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/can-we-count-on-the-court-if-democracy-is-a...

I’m scratching my head. Who’s in charge at Fox News nowadays?
This would never have been aired last year.

Walz on Trump:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_N_2OpODAW/?igsh=MTQ4Y3V6bmJlc243Yg==

Republican group cites notorious Dred Scott ruling as reason Kamala Harris can’t be president

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kamala-harris-pres...

The NFRA’s interpretation of the Constitution would have made several US presidents ineligible to hold office, such as George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. Their parents were born in what was then the British colonies in what would later become the US, meaning that those commanders in chief would not meet the strict standards of the NFRA.

Fake pro-MAGA accounts on X have stolen the identities of European women

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/28/europe/fake-maga-accounts-x-european-influencers-...

Trump vows to cut business tax rate to 15%, create government efficiency commission led by Elon Musk
Former President Trump says he will 'make America richer and stronger' if elected again
Brooke Singman | September 5, 2024

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-vows-cut-business-tax-rate-15-create-gove...

Eighty-eight corporate leaders endorse Harris in new letter, including CEOs of Yelp, Box
Megan Cassella | Sep 6 2024

Key Points
Eighty-eight corporate leaders signed a new letter Friday endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris for president.
Signers include former 21st Century Fox CEO James Murdoch, Snap Chairman Michael Lynton, Yelp boss Jeremy Stoppelman and Ripple co-founder Chris Larsen.
If the Democratic nominee wins the White House, they contend, “the business community can be confident that it will have a president who wants American industries to thrive.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/06/harris-endorsed-trump-murdoch-yelp-snap-ripple.h...

Garrett Haake @GarrettHaake | 7:52 PM · Sep 7, 2024 {X}:
@nbcnews Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent & 2024 campaign chronicler

In a lengthy Truth Social post, @realDonaldTrump escalates his threats to prosecute political opponents - now vowing “long term prison sentences” for anyone who “cheated” in the 2020 or 2024 election.

Trump's post (https://x.com/GarrettHaake/status/1832567567934018026/photo/1)

> 108

I agree with tRump. There should be long term prison sentences for anyone who cheated in either the 2020 or 2024 elections. As far as I can tell that would include tRump plus several hundred republicans but no democrats, independents, libertarians, greens, etc.

>108 margd: And Trump includes donors in the list of people he wants to go after. So, if you donate to Joe Blow and he in turn does something Trump feels is "illegal" he may come after you too. And yes, your name as a donor WILL be out there. I know this first hand as my name and job title made it into an article on the Prop 8 fight in California.

Generals come to Harris' defense on Afghanistan

https://www.axios.com/2024/09/09/generals-defend-harris-us-withdrawal-afghanista...

"Without involving the Afghan government, Trump and his Administration negotiated a deal with the Taliban that freed 5,000 Taliban fighters," the retired military officials wrote in a National Security Leaders for America letter first obtained by Axios.

The group accused Trump of leaving Biden and Harris with no plans to execute a withdrawal and little time to do so.
"This chaotic approach severely hindered the Biden-Harris Administration's ability to execute the most orderly withdrawal possible and put our service members and our allies at risk," they wrote.