Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sudden Attack

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 15:42, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sudden Attack

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Non-notable game, no references from reliable, third-party published sources, very crufty. Wikipedia is not a game guide. Wyatt Riot (talk) 09:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This opinion seems very euro/American culture centric. This game is quite notable. I live in S. Korea, a country where computer games are played competitively on TV, in prime time, 7 days a week. This is the 2nd most popular game in the country behind Star Craft. It's unique free distribution system requiring government data is also a noteworthy contrast to standard games. The artical has major needs of revision and new sources, it's true, but it should not be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.72.229.46 (talk) 08:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. MrKIA11 (talk) 11:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no sources, no notability, all in-universe. JohnCD (talk) 15:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete — with all due respect to our friends in the Far East, per JohnCD and per numerous other MMORPG AfDs that are similar to this one. Try to assume good faith here and not play the "centrism card." MuZemike (talk) 21:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This game is huge. Notability in the western markets is in question, but certainly not elsewhere so the argument of centrism is a good one to use in this case. For further notability, see: [1][2][3][4], it wasn't hard to find lots of sources on google for this regarding the games importance/notability. Also in correction to MuZemike, this is an MMOFPS, not an MMORPG. And it scale of popularity puts it far beyond most titles that already have wikipedia articles. TrackZero (talk) 14:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Mind you of WP:BIGNUMBER and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Sorry about the MMO-confusion (although in my eyes many MMO articles, regardless if it's an FPS or RPG, face the same staggering problems). Anyways, the first source mentioned is from a blog, a self-published source which does not readily pass WP:V. The third and fourth ones don't seem to be reliable sources. However, the second one I think is OK. However, the article needs more sources like this one to establish the significant coverage needed to satisfy WP:GNG. I'll change my !vote a weak delete for now. MuZemike (talk) 20:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, notability is not determined by a perception of popularity, but by verifiable sources. (Forgot to mention that from above.) MuZemike (talk) 20:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 01:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete without prejudice against recreation with sources etc. At the moment it has no sources. If sources exist, now would be a good time to add them... If not we can't have an article Thin boy 00 @101, i.e. 01:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:WEB, WP:N, WP:V, and so on. Only reason for keeping is essentially WP:BIGNUMBER, which is always a weak argument but particularly weak here, as people often create multiple accounts in MMO games, or create accounts and lose the password or just stop playing. Bottom line: the game is not presently notable enough for an article. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 01:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep searching for "sudden attack" game brings up plenty of hits from game sites. Tag it for references, but there really is no rationale for deleting it. PHARMBOY (TALK) 01:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I did the same thing, and I'm not seeing reliable sources when I did the search; what sticks out from the search are the sources TrackZero mentioned above. MuZemike (talk) 02:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep As noted by MuZemike, the second source is okay. And I think the Asiaone source looks quite good and doesn't seem to be self-published ([5]). Given that lots of non-RS indicate this is a highly popular game in Korea, I'm inclined to take those two sources as enough. Hobit (talk) 02:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. This article needs speedy wikify: sounds like a game guide not a Wikipedia article. And add reliable third party sources. Zero Kitsune (talk) 04:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I found an external link which could be a reasonable source for the game but the problem is that it is the Sudden Attack official homepage itself, and is in Korean. However, I am still listing the source right here, in hopes that it is a reasonable source: ([6]) Mydoctor93 (talk) 06:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, I'm not an expert at wiki formatting. Mydoctor93 (talk) 06:39, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep with no prejudice towards nominating again if someone can't prove once and for all that this can meet WP:N and WP:V. Definitely needs a cleanup to remove the WP:GAMECRUFT. Randomran (talk) 03:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.